Shift Lever and Short Shifters

[erik325i]

edit: I'd like to add that the Z4 3.0 lever may be a great shifter if there is a way to add ~5-6" to the lever above the pivot cup

If that is what you are after, just get the Z3 3.0 shifter. It has pretty much the same throw as the Z4 3.0, but it is taller. It is not 5-6 inches taller, but still better than the Z4.

[Bryson]

read page 7, I've tried virtually every cheap shifter combo.
Z3 2.8==Z3 3.0

it is nice but not tall enough, not nearly as short as Z4 3.0 either

[redcarbon]

I am not seeing why a short shifter would allow you to kill your transmission. If anything it would reduce the force the transmissions sees.

The original shifter in my 318is has a very long upper section and a very short lower section, meaning a small force at the tip of the shifter is amplified at the selector rod (I think that's what it's called, the metal bar that goes in the lower section of the shifter (and held by one circlip) and into the transmission). So, you could put a lot of force into the transmission with a little force at your hand.

With a short shifter, that mechanical advantage is a lot less and now it would take a lot more force on your part to put the same force in the transmission.

Two problems I can see with a short shifter like the z4 3.0 with it's longer lower section is now there will be a vertical force on the transmission because the selector rod is inclined. This may hurt the seals or bushings around the transmission rod.

Also, since the lower section of the shifter is longer, the linear motion in the direction of the shifter rod is higher and it can engage quicker (for the same rotational speed about the ball pivot), which may wear down your synchros in time.

I just installed the z4 3.0, and after a few days of break in, it works great. The shift pattern did move slightly away from me, but I like the feel and quick shifts. Now I just need a metal shifter nob because the stock one deflects too much when I engage the gears.

[Bryson]

There was a problem with my argument, which I believe set you off on the incorrect path.
edit: I would like to say that you are correct in your argument in terms of effort and wear, though I would like to add to it a little..

I am implying that you (or anyone else) is strong enough to move the shift lever at the same rate (at the knob) with both shifters. Basically, the torque your arm can apply. I'm 6'2" 190lbs and am moving the lever at the same speed regardless of which shifter I'm using.
Theoretically, this will create a shorter shift depending on the ratios of the lengths of the rod on either end of the pivot cup. Herein lies the problem: the transmission is not willing to move at that uprated speed, causing me to pause in the middle of my shift, making the shift take more effort (from 0-movement two times now) and also taking more time, due to the pause.
You can move a short shifter at a slower rate in order to get a shorter shift while maintaining similar shift times, but I doubt that anybody here has such control over the muscles in their arm to create a smooth, fluid, slow motion with such a short shifter repeatedly without thinking about it.

For me, this is the reason a shorter throw shifter takes longer to shift.

I'd like to add that I'm sure many people have the same problem, but have adapted and no longer notice the pause between shifts.. although it could be ultimately hurting performance.
This is all a moot point if you don't have precise control over your feet with the clutch+gas pedals anyway.
Your shifts are only as fast as the weakest link in the equation.
For me, the weakest link is the notchy lever


edit2: what is it with this "break in" everyone is referring to? Are you confusing this with the adaptation you are making for the harder shift? There are no parts that require any breaking in, further more, any "breaking in" is unwanted as it would produce slop in the shift. I could understand if you were referring to the viscosity of the fluids with the first 20-30 or so shifts (which is less shifting than one normal drive around town for most). Even then, how much difference would that make, especially when you're comparing it with the effort to move a short shifter.

Some day I may open up a spare transmission and modify the shift forks in an effort to smooth out the shifting process with a short shifter, but at that point you are likely weakening the metal in the forks which may cause them to fail

[redcarbon]

good points. I agree.

about the break in - I used some random lubricant at the pivot ball of the new z4 shifter and white nylon cup interface. I noticed this joint had significantly higher friction than the orginal shifter and cup interface. I would assume after some time and repeated shift movements that the shifter pivot ball and nylon cup "break in" and have less friction as they wear on eachother slightly. Once it has "broken in" this joint doesn't resist shifting motion as much and shift effort goes down.

[moatilliatta]

is nylon a self lubricating plasic?



i have someting to say about Bryson theory
if you shift at the normal speed in a stock shifter. and if you shift at the same speed in say a z4 3.0 shifter, than i can see how it would cuz more tear on transmission. it would be like slamming (maybe not as extreme) into gear with the stock shifter. i dont know you you understand that. but just think about it. so if you slam it into gear with the z4 shifter. than i can see where major wear and tear on your trans. its commen sence. my .02 $
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CRF230

[erik325i]

is nylon a self lubricating plasic?

I believe you are correct.
Mabey that is the break-in everyone is experiencing... They have to work through all of that heavy grease that they applied. Once the grease is gone, it is easier to shift.

[moatilliatta]

yeahh i thougt so.
wasnt sure.
________
buy vaporizers

[Drewe30e]

I've finally decided on, and bought, the Z3 1.9 shifter and all the bushings and such that are needed. I got them today from BMA. I asked for Patrick like everyone said and he was incredibly helpful. Thanks for all the input in this post for helping me make my decision. I'll let you guys know how everything goes in once I put it in with my "new" tranny.

[nickmp0wer]

what other things should be replaced along with the bma ssk? any bushings or any thing that it doesnt come with?

[zandi]

what other things should be replaced along with the bma ssk? any bushings or any thing that it doesnt come with?

There's a shifter joint that goes into the tranmission side of the shift rod, it has a bushing on it, it's kinda hard to change with the driveshaft on but it's doable, it hasa pin that you push out to take it out and you have to put the pin back when you put a new one, I'd recommend you go under your car and see if you can do it. (if you do order this make sure you order the right one, there are two different ones in different sizes!!!!)

The shift carrier has a bushing that attaches to the chassis, easy change. The bushing that attaches to the tranmission on the shift carrier you should be ordering as part of the package but I recommend the delrin ones.

I think that's basically it for big differences in shifting

[318driver]

For whoever has done the rebuild of the sheet metal shift linkage. How hard was it? How long did it take you? How bad was the slop before and how is it now? also pictures if you have them.

Im just asking because the car i just bought has some awful shifter slop, after i put it in 5th, it comes over to the left and will actually look like its in 3rd.

Thanks guys.

[KenC]

For whoever has done the rebuild of the sheet metal shift linkage. How hard was it? How long did it take you? How bad was the slop before and how is it now? also pictures if you have them.

Im just asking because the car i just bought has some awful shifter slop, after i put it in 5th, it comes over to the left and will actually look like its in 3rd.

Thanks guys.

I did it about a year ago. I had never done it before at all and it took me like 4 hours (I work slow haha) to replace all of the bushings and such and install a Z4 lever - actually a lot of the time it took me was figuring out how to modify the fulcrum bushings to get the Z4 lever to work. If you want to get rid of the slop, replace all of the console mounts (2) and the rear one as well. If you drop the driveshaft it will go pretty quickly, but I just kept it in and worked around it.

[318driver]

Re: How to Rebuild a Sheet-Metal Console Shifter Mechanism

How to Rebuild a Sheet-Metal Console Shifter Mechanism

Everybody with a sheet-metal console should thank Bill for this one:



Okay. In terms of console bushings, there are three. In the diagram above, they are parts 1 and 7. I'd also get a couple of 2's, as they come with locking material on them (and are known to back out of the transmission). It can't hurt to get a couple 8's and 9's either, as they are easy to lose and the clips are easy to break. If you wanna go crazy (I didn't), 14 is a rubber washer that wears out over time.

1: 25 11 1 208 580 (2)
2: 25 11 1 205 659 (2)
7: 25 11 1 204 422 (1)
8: 25 11 1 209 078 (4)
9: 25 11 1 220 379 (2)
14: 23 41 1 466 118 (1)




For the shift lever, you really don't need any parts. You can reuse ones off of your old shifter, but you have to grind down the metal ball and it's a pain in the ass. For as cheap as the parts are, I'd just get new ones. Here's the list for stuff to replace in the two pics above:

Upper Diagram:
4: 25 11 1 207 744 (1)
8: 23 41 1 200 844(1)
12: 23 41 1 466 112 (1)
Lower Diagram:
4: 23 41 1 466 110 (1)

I just order by part number from BMA.

For installation, you're going to have to file down the inner rim of the upper ball cup to slide it down over the Z4 lever.

So i need all of this, and just the z4 lever? No other parts from the Z4 lever list right

[KenC]

Re: How to Rebuild a Sheet-Metal Console Shifter Mechanism

How to Rebuild a Sheet-Metal Console Shifter Mechanism

Everybody with a sheet-metal console should thank Bill for this one:



Okay. In terms of console bushings, there are three. In the diagram above, they are parts 1 and 7. I'd also get a couple of 2's, as they come with locking material on them (and are known to back out of the transmission). It can't hurt to get a couple 8's and 9's either, as they are easy to lose and the clips are easy to break. If you wanna go crazy (I didn't), 14 is a rubber washer that wears out over time.

1: 25 11 1 208 580 (2)
2: 25 11 1 205 659 (2)
7: 25 11 1 204 422 (1)
8: 25 11 1 209 078 (4)
9: 25 11 1 220 379 (2)
14: 23 41 1 466 118 (1)




For the shift lever, you really don't need any parts. You can reuse ones off of your old shifter, but you have to grind down the metal ball and it's a pain in the ass. For as cheap as the parts are, I'd just get new ones. Here's the list for stuff to replace in the two pics above:

Upper Diagram:
4: 25 11 1 207 744 (1)
8: 23 41 1 200 844(1)
12: 23 41 1 466 112 (1)
Lower Diagram:
4: 23 41 1 466 110 (1)

I just order by part number from BMA.

For installation, you're going to have to file down the inner rim of the upper ball cup to slide it down over the Z4 lever.

So i need all of this, and just the z4 lever? No other parts from the Z4 lever list right

You'll need 2 of #4 to stack on top of eachother. The portion of the lever below the fulcrum is so long it will hit the drive shaft if you just drop it in there. Then you'll have to get crafty and shave down the top of #10 and just use #12 to hold everything in.