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WAY better wasted spark option

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  • Scallywagon
    replied
    Here's what I put together so far
    Attached Files

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  • Scallywagon
    replied
    Got it, thanks Varg
    Click image for larger version  Name:	N38u4I8.png Views:	0 Size:	221.1 KB ID:	9909398
    Last edited by Scallywagon; 03-03-2020, 09:32 PM.

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  • varg
    replied
    MS fires ignition drivers in alphabetical order.

    Wasted spark in parentheses:
    A: 1 (6)
    B: 5 (2)
    C: 3 (4)
    A: 6 (1)
    B: 2 (5)
    C: 4 (3)

    All you need to know is which pin goes with which driver (A, B, C, D) and wire the coils so that they fire in the correct order, which in the M20 wasted spark case will always be A1/6, B5/2, C3/4. It seems odd at first that A, B, C, D correspond with descending pin orders 17, 16, 15, 14 at first but on MS boards R26 is A, R29 is B, R27 is C and JS11 is D so I suppose it's normal for MS to have jacked up orders.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	PNP_QS13.jpg
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ID:	9909378
    Last edited by varg; 03-03-2020, 07:01 PM.

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  • Scallywagon
    replied
    Originally posted by varg View Post
    From http://www.megasquirtpnp.com/docs/ms...genInstall.php

    17 - Spark A
    16 - Spark B
    15 - Spark C

    So,
    A -> 17 -> 1/6
    B -> 16 -> 5/2
    C -> 15 -> 3/4
    That's how I had it originally, then I read on page 2 a couple guys had discovered the MSPNP2 manual was wrong:
    Click image for larger version  Name:	64Wlql4.png Views:	0 Size:	223.2 KB ID:	9909373
    Last edited by Scallywagon; 03-03-2020, 06:52 PM.

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  • varg
    replied
    From http://www.megasquirtpnp.com/docs/ms...genInstall.php

    17 - Spark A
    16 - Spark B
    15 - Spark C

    So,
    A -> 17 -> 1/6
    B -> 16 -> 5/2
    C -> 15 -> 3/4

    Leave a comment:


  • Scallywagon
    replied
    I redrew this as I understand it, am I getting this right here?

    M20 + MSPNP2 + QuadSpark + Bosch Coil P/N: 0221503002
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Scallywagon; 03-03-2020, 09:20 PM.

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  • e30davie
    replied
    what coils are you using?

    As you suggest you want to aim for the minimum dwell that you can get away with.

    You've got to be careful with some smart coils as when you dwell them too much they fire by themselves, and it can cause naughty things as essentially you are advancing the timing more than you think you are.

    edit: ive just noticed the date of the previous post, oh well ill leave it here.

    Leave a comment:


  • mrlucretius
    replied
    Hi People,

    Regarding the battery tray coilpack / quadspark setup:

    I ran into some trouble with the coil + drivers overheating.

    I was stuck in traffic idling on a hot day, and then I lost two cylinders...

    I thought I blew one of the drivers, but then I read they have overtemp protection.

    So once everything cooled down, it started up fine.

    I am planning to install a heat shield between the exhaust header and the coil pack to avoid direct radiant heating.

    Also, I may put a heatsink between the quadspark and the coil bracket plate.

    Finally, I did reduce the dwell down to 2.5 from 3.5ms to reduce the current and thus internal heating of the quadspark. So far no more overheating issues.

    Really, upon reading more, you are supposed to dial back the dwell until you get missing at idle, then turn it up a few tenths. I bet I can back off dwell even more to reduce current more.

    For this setup, as far as I understand, since there are 3 coils (instead of one), the duration setting does not really matter, unless you can rev to ~18k rpm (where duration would force reduction of dwell at high rpm), not gonna happen on an M20.

    As a reminder: for my high compression motor build, the single stock coil setup would start misfiring at ~6krpm or so due to dwell being reduced. That is why I went wasted spark. Three coils can fire 3 times as fast before duration starts reducing dwell and thus spark energy.

    Will post a pic when I get that all put together.

    -Alex
    Last edited by mrlucretius; 09-12-2019, 10:14 AM.

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  • Digitalwave
    replied
    Tooth #1 angle should be 84* give or take. You'll have to verify your actual tooth #1 angle using a timing light to be sure (mine was about 84.6* to be absolutely perfect). This would make your timing table off by 13*.

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  • saucers
    replied
    Seems to be wired correctly, has spark.
    Turns over, but doesn't start for some reason
    Car was tuned by ForcedFirebird sometime back

    After seeing mrlucretius settings, my cranking dwell seems a bit lower than his.
    Going to give that a try

    Leave a comment:


  • citizen_insane
    replied
    You didn't mention what issue you're actually having. Are you confused how to wire it up? Do you have it wired up and it's not working? Have you verified you have spark? Have you verified your timing? 97°BTDC seems high. My car was setup at 90° and 84° is a number I see on the internet fairly often as well. You will need to verify all the settings in the MSPNP tune because in my experience they are not necessarily correct.

    Leave a comment:


  • saucers
    replied
    Have you ever been looking for something in a cabinet and it's right in front of your face but you can't find it.
    Thats how I feel getting this wired up.
    HELP! What am I missing here?

    MSPNP from diyautotune, my settings are:



    Quadspark and Bosch 0221503002 is wired the following, with pin 4 on the coil wired to green wire 12v from the stock coil:

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  • citizen_insane
    replied
    Originally posted by McGyver View Post
    I know this is a dumb question, but I'm getting a little overwhelmed with all the MegaSquirt learning. I built a MegaSquirtII V3.0 board, used 3 BIPs to enable me to use wasted spark.

    How is this wired? 3 MS outputs trigger each of the 3 coils, 4th plug is the high voltage input? Then voltage goes through the spark plug wire and ground is the cathode on the plug?

    So that means this is wired directly to MS and I don't need a quad spark?

    Thanks, I'm confused, and need to read the mega manual a few more times...

    BIP373 replaces the quad spark. In fact, the quad spark is just 4 BIP 373's in an enclosure w/ some resistors and stuff (basically, it might be slightly more complicated than that).


    The logic flow is:
    MS3 Output (any allowed) -> BIP373 -> Coil -> SparkPlugs


    The BIP 373 is ground switching the coil and the spark plug should fire when the MS3 is no longer grounded (goes high).



    This thread is very good, make sure to read it all the way through because there are corrections:
    http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewto...?f=131&t=42038


    This is a diagram I made based off that thread/my setup:

    Leave a comment:


  • McGyver
    replied
    Originally posted by keyland View Post
    Yep, you'll need a total of three BIP373's.

    I have the DIYPNP so it was a breeze to modify. Had the board modified and coil wired up for a test start in about an hour.
    I know this is a dumb question, but I'm getting a little overwhelmed with all the MegaSquirt learning. I built a MegaSquirtII V3.0 board, used 3 BIPs to enable me to use wasted spark.

    How is this wired? 3 MS outputs trigger each of the 3 coils, 4th plug is the high voltage input? Then voltage goes through the spark plug wire and ground is the cathode on the plug?

    So that means this is wired directly to MS and I don't need a quad spark?

    Thanks, I'm confused, and need to read the mega manual a few more times...

    Leave a comment:


  • nando
    replied
    Nice!

    Still haven't had to touch my COP setup once in like 7 years. So yeah, it's "fancy" and "complicated" but I haven't had to think about it since I put it together.

    Actually, my E30 has had wasted spark/COP longer now than it had been stock under my ownership. I'm pretty sure I put in at least 4 cap and rotors, plus a set of plug wires, and God knows how many sets of plugs prior to that..

    Leave a comment:

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