Turbo M20, M30 or M60?

[ForcedFirebird]

It just makes life easier when you can do some of your own wrenching when cost are an issue. The only "issue" i see from OP point of view and really all the other people that do the same. Is how do you have a "track car" but not do any wrenching your self. Part of owning a track/race car is being able to fix shit on the fly to keep you on the track and not wasting your time/money and effort. If something breaks in first 10 min of an event and you cant fix it cause you don't know how. What do you do? Call it a day and have a tow truck come get you and then that 100+ dollars you spent on your event is essentially wasted. Im not trying to bash or be a dick just have always wondered how people plan to do that when they don't have a pit crew that can do it all for you while you chill in the car.

I was juts hired last weekend to support a race team at Daytona. Not everyone has a garage/tools/knowledge to work on things themselves, others take the time and learn and/or build a tool collection.

Simple example:

My neighbor had the camshaft in his truck wipe a lobe, and he put it in an awesome way. He said, "why would I spend a whole weekend fixing my truck, when I can pay you to do it in a few hours, while I work over here in my shop, make just as much money as it's going to cost for you to fix it, then I can actually drive my truck this weekend."

Think about it. Does everyone fix their own toilet, or go rent a snake when the plumbing backs up? Does everyone go and purchase gauges when their home A/C unit runs low on freon? Not everyone enjoys busting knuckles and getting greasy if they can afford to pay someone to do it - or if they can make more money than the build/repair will cost.

You would be surprised how many drivers/owners DO hire a crew or pay a professional track-side service to work on their cars - even in Spec e30....

EDIT: To add, many racers have a shop do the work, bring their car to the track, and when something breaks, all the rest of thier race class will chip in and help!

[ThatOneEuroE30]

We have done several items for the OP over the years. In fact his Z3M was one of the first jobs we did at the new location - the rear subframe was hanging half way out of the car o.0. Hard to believe it's already been 6yr here, we were at a smaller location a few buildings over prior...



Shop looks so different/full now, and I actually wear uniforms haha!

It just makes life easier when you can do some of your own wrenching when cost are an issue. The only "issue" i see from OP point of view and really all the other people that do the same. Is how do you have a "track car" but not do any wrenching your self. Part of owning a track/race car is being able to fix shit on the fly to keep you on the track and not wasting your time/money and effort. If something breaks in first 10 min of an event and you cant fix it cause you don't know how. What do you do? Call it a day and have a tow truck come get you and then that 100+ dollars you spent on your event is essentially wasted. Im not trying to bash or be a dick just have always wondered how people plan to do that when they don't have a pit crew that can do it all for you while you chill in the car.

[ForcedFirebird]

Are you not able to do any work your self? Will save you a chunk of change for sure. It's not like these cars are difficult either. Buy a Bentley manual and you can pretty much rebuild an entire car from the book.

We have done several items for the OP over the years. In fact his Z3M was one of the first jobs we did at the new location - the rear subframe was hanging half way out of the car o.0. Hard to believe it's already been 6yr here, we were at a smaller location a few buildings over prior...



Shop looks so different/full now, and I actually wear uniforms haha!

[infanterene]

I am not at all capable of doing this job myself. I don't have the skill, the time, the space, the tools or the moxie to do it myself. I am pretty good at taking things apart but terrible at putting them together.

[ThatOneEuroE30]

$3000 for parts is not including everything, shipping, gaskets, misc it's adds up quick. Labor also adds up quick, everything takes longer than expected working on old cars.

Are you not able to do any work your self? Will save you a chunk of change for sure. It's not like these cars are difficult either. Buy a Bentley manual and you can pretty much rebuild an entire car from the book.

[infanterene]

$3000 for parts is not including everything, shipping, gaskets, misc it's adds up quick. Labor also adds up quick, everything takes longer than expected working on old cars.

[ThatOneEuroE30]

Gonna have to agree with john. If your looking for a basic track setup. M20 will be best option. Otherwise m30 has 200hp out of the box. M60 is to big imo for e30 if you want tracking abilities. And turbos are never the answer for track cars unless you have the ability to spend lots $$$ to keep it cool properly and deal with all the headaches from it

[ForcedFirebird]

Cam depends on compression ratio and desired RPM range. A 288 is going to make more power up high, but it is bit large for a stock compression 2.5 (making the power curve even higher). If you plan on building a stroker and bumping compression, I would suggest over-camming it. The car in the video used a 272, but the client originally intended to stay with a stock bottom end - had I known he was going to turn around and ask for a bottom end build, a 288 would have been better suited.

puts it around 3k plus cost of a tune

This is why I suggested this to the OP given his budget range. Labor to swap the cam, install the ITB's and dyno tune would be $5k-ish, a little over more likely, but HP costs $$ lol

[tiger_e30]

Your budget and hiring quality labor may be an issue. Just buying a swap engine, and even fitting it in the car is only half the battle (maybe less than half). The time consuming part is the custom items like exhaust, wiring etc.

I would suggest starting with a m20 upgrades and go from there, but you also know I am partial to the small block of BMW (aka m20) ;)

With the ITB's you saw here at the shop, an upgraded camshaft and Megasquirt - you will be nearing 200whp. Track that, then see how much more power you want. This will be within your budget, you can keep your A/C as you requested, and the engine is already there in your car. When you are ready for more power, then decide, but honestly stroking the m20 and putting a proper head on it, it's going to be plenty fast and reliable.

I know "it's just and m20" but don't dismiss it!

What cam do you recommend going with? Figure the rhd itbs are $1800 with a plenum then whodwho ms $700 another $500 for cam puts it around 3k plus cost of a tune

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[ForcedFirebird]

200 whp is about what the M Coupes have. Almost enough lol

But! It doesn't sound like this :)....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7UI2UyR91Q

[infanterene]

200 whp is about what the M Coupes have. Almost enough lol

[ForcedFirebird]

Is an low mile M30 3.5 doable for $5000 parts and labor?

Your budget and hiring quality labor may be an issue. Just buying a swap engine, and even fitting it in the car is only half the battle (maybe less than half). The time consuming part is the custom items like exhaust, wiring etc.

I would suggest starting with a m20 upgrades and go from there, but you also know I am partial to the small block of BMW (aka m20) ;)

With the ITB's you saw here at the shop, an upgraded camshaft and Megasquirt - you will be nearing 200whp. Track that, then see how much more power you want. This will be within your budget, you can keep your A/C as you requested, and the engine is already there in your car. When you are ready for more power, then decide, but honestly stroking the m20 and putting a proper head on it, it's going to be plenty fast and reliable.

I know "it's just and m20" but don't dismiss it!

[ThatOneEuroE30]

m30's run hot in the e30 because there is not sufficient clearance for a big radiator and a cooling fan so you have to use an electric fan with a 535i thin radiator

I got a e36 mishimoto rad in my car and big fan. Runs nice and cool.

[downforce22]

m30's run hot in the e30 because there is not sufficient clearance for a big radiator and a cooling fan so you have to use an electric fan with a 535i thin radiator

[infanterene]

Is an low mile M30 3.5 doable for $5000 parts and labor?