M20 Gates Racing Belt Coming Soon.....

[IveGotIssues666]

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...after-24-years!

And thats a stock engine, I clearly stated FI engines I am very well aware the factory belt can handle over its service interval I just picked up an 87 325i that was sitting for 10 years and the timing belt still looked fine.

I have many customers on OE Belts that are well over the yearly interval yet haven't met the mileage interval and the belts still look decent.

[digger]

Not directing this towards you but others have mentioned the word "proven" as well in the same sentence

You say Contitech is proven but to what degree? 5k? 10k? 15k?? What type of Numbers is that car putting down? How is the car being driven? There are many variables that take place.

Does anyone have any pictures they wish to contribute of there Initial Contitech or OE Belt With 20 to 30k on it pushing over 300HP? and when I say Initial I mean they didn't change out the belt halfway in between etc...

I would honestly like to see pictures to be honest.

I feel that most people that are frowning upon the idea is mainly due to the price point of the belt itself.

I'll send and email to the Gates Rep to confirm or Denyif this Belt will be ready this month or NOT until December like someone mentioned in this thread already.

Jared

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...after-24-years!

[1owNslo]

^ more or less what i was getting at

[digger]

building and modifying engines costs alot of money. $100 for one of the most critical components is peanuts if it outdoes the stock belt in every aspect (other than $$ of course).

[1owNslo]

I feel that most people that are frowning upon the idea is mainly due to the price point of the belt itself.



Jared[/QUOTE]

I can see why ppl are doing such.. but other than that i do not see why everyone is making such a big fuss out of it. no one is putting a gun to your head and say "buy this belt or your car is gonna blow up!" its just a different product, higher price, and hasnt seem to be tested yet. either buy it or dont.

that being said... please let us know when they will be available.. i would like one of these.

also not sure if this was mentioned in this thread earlier, but i would "assume" gates is going to test this belt to some extent before selling it correct?

[IveGotIssues666]

the only comment is that the conti is proven on an M20, and these new gates ones specific for the M20 are not yet proven....?

Not directing this towards you but others have mentioned the word "proven" as well in the same sentence

You say Contitech is proven but to what degree? 5k? 10k? 15k?? What type of Numbers is that car putting down? How is the car being driven? There are many variables that take place.

Does anyone have any pictures they wish to contribute of there Initial Contitech or OE Belt With 20 to 30k on it pushing over 300HP? and when I say Initial I mean they didn't change out the belt halfway in between etc...

I would honestly like to see pictures to be honest.

I feel that most people that are frowning upon the idea is mainly due to the price point of the belt itself.

I'll send and email to the Gates Rep to confirm or Denyif this Belt will be ready this month or NOT until December like someone mentioned in this thread already.

Jared

[SkiFree]

Fair enough, not "knocking" it though. The general idea behind a "new and improved" part is to downplay the existing part on market, which in this case is a bad idea (as it is nearly all the time).

A good marketing approach would NOT be the "bigger/better/faster than the existing market" but rather approach it by simply state that its a very nice strong belt and let the customer weigh in on the bigger/better/faster part.

And heck yeah I'm going to try one out for the sake of it.

[IveGotIssues666]

So how often would you replace a Gates belt on a similar engine then? Your point can be made somewhat valid ONLY if it was based on replacement interval recommendations from Gates and not simply conjecture.

Too be Honest I couldn't tell you, gates wont give any service interval due liability issues, however they are designed for high hp/torque applications unlike the regular OEM belt which BMW never intended for enthusiasts to run High HP/torque M20 engines (Maybe we should ask BMW how long the OE belt will last on a 600HP M20 lol).

But seriously only time will tell once they are produced trial and error. Maybe people could start posting pictures of the conditions of their contitech or another OE brand belts they have used. Like how many miles/years how much HP/Torque their pushing before they replaced. Then once people start running the GATES Racing Belt people can do the same.

I willing to take a shot, and heck I'm willing to bet those currently knocking the new Belt design will end up in the future trying one at least once, only to realize after all its a decent product (I've seen and heard that all before lol)

Jared

[digger]

the only comment is that the conti is proven on an M20, and these new gates ones specific for the M20 are not yet proven....?

[fporro]

I for one tend to redline my engine numerous times whenever I drive,
so far I have not been able to snap a Conti belt.

Once i did have it jump, not know it then I thought it was misfiring so actually revved it up and shifted it in a lower gear, repeatedly, until motor ceased. Upon inspection belt never snapped, system failure was not due to service interval but due to improper tensioning by mechanic.

I'm confident on Conti's, that being said I would never reuse one, just plain crazy.

If a stronger belt becomes available and it can at least last as long as OEM unit then why not give it a try ? the worst thing it could happen is give you extra reassurance from performance point of view., cost a few more bucks ? so do this and that.

[SkiFree]

For the guys who have loads of money into m20 head work, why would you not spend a little more and get the MM non-interference pistons. Drunk, but really?

Maybe because there are those of us who feel it's a less-than ideal design? It does have the benefit of "non-interference" wich is a positive for someone who shouldn't be rebuilding an engine in the first place. I'm sure in layman's terms you could describe them as an attempt at being "stupid-proof?.

I'm in Digger's ballpark on this one, and no I'd rather not go into a lengthy forum discussion on it.

That being said, it'll be neat to have the Gates belt for the enduro motors. As far as an "upgrade", an upgrade for the sake of "upgrading" always throws up a red flag over the competence of whose touched the engine (kind of like a billet guibo). Nothing wrong with the conti-belts.

And how often do people change there OE Belts with a setup like that? More often than not they are probably back within the engine tweaking or modifying for more power. So the OE belt comes off and is replaced with yet again another OE one so maybe what 5k or 10k maybe less? I don't know but I'm willing to bet trying to run a single OE belt on a motor like that, that it will fail before the service interval of 45k. Not saying the OE belt isn't capable of handling 600HP at all, just don't believe it will last 45k on that type of motor.

Also with the Gates Racing Belt at least we wouldn't have to replace it eveytime we removed it to service anything else.

So how often would you replace a Gates belt on a similar engine then? Your point can be made somewhat valid ONLY if it was based on replacement interval recommendations from Gates and not simply conjecture.

[dougie30]

If people are up grading a bunch of parts on there m20 engine's why not also upgrade one of the most important parts?

[kdique]

I want one and I buy from Rockauto

[IveGotIssues666]

Great argument :roll:


The contitech belt does not just snap with people running ppf cams and making over 600whp under boost. And that belt is $12, $35 including the roller. So i find it a little difficult to understand the need for a stronger $100 belt with 0 information from the manufacturer as far as service intervals. So people are either going to ride it out hoping the belt last 2-3x longer and possibly destroying their motor in the process. Or replace the belt within the standard intervals (3 years /45k miles according to my factory trained 30 year BMW mechanic/father) which the factory belt handles just fine.

And how often do people change there OE Belts with a setup like that? More often than not they are probably back within the engine tweaking or modifying for more power. So the OE belt comes off and is replaced with yet again another OE one so maybe what 5k or 10k maybe less? I don't know but I'm willing to bet trying to run a single OE belt on a motor like that, that it will fail before the service interval of 45k. Not saying the OE belt isn't capable of handling 600HP at all, just don't believe it will last 45k on that type of motor.

Also with the Gates Racing Belt at least we wouldn't have to replace it eveytime we removed it to service anything else.

[digger]

I plan on having some non interference 8.5:1 pistons made for my car. I figure as long as i'm getting custom pistons made why not have them non interference.



From MMs catalog
Pistons 3200 Rally, 86mm, Deep Valve Pockets 11.0:1 CR

The gallardo pockets seem pretty deep as well. I'm pretty confident the people who specialize in engine design know way more then i ever will. Even with my mechanical engineering background.

deep pockets are usually for big camshafts or in the case of OEM engines clearance for variable valve timing where the positives outweigh the negatives. if you don't need deep pockets then having them only hurts performance

The MM sport pistons would be higher CR with smaller pockets for the valves.....kind of like how the deep pocket sport pistons are 10:1 and the rally ones 10.5 to 11:1