Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Das Beast: My E30 track / street build

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    A quote from https://www.aa1car.com/library/ar293.htm



    The 2nd compression ring on many late model ring sets uses a napier groove to reduce oil consumption.
    The groove scrapes oil off the cylinder surface when the ring moves down.
    The ring must be installed with the groove side facing down, otherwise it will pump oil the wrong way and increase oil consumption.
    My M20 Frankenbuild(s)
    4 Sale - Fully Built TurnKey Megasquirt Plug and Play EMS

    Comment


      I concur it looks upside down.
      89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

      new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

      Comment


        100% upside-down, unfortunately.

        Napier rings always have the outer groove on the bottom. Can't believe no one noticed before whodwho decided to come out of the woodwork and post again! I came late to the thread, missed the first several pages, went back to read them. :(
        john@m20guru.com
        Links:
        Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

        Comment


          Really appreciate you guys checking that. It's a lot of blog to read.

          It sucks, but is not completely horrible. We're going to:

          1. Get the front frame on jackstands
          2. Take off the head, remove radiator and "some other bits" (HaHa)
          3. Attach a chain hoist, remove the engine mount bolts
          4. Lift the block a bit to get the rack out w/o bending mounting tabs
          5. Remove oil pan, rod bolts
          6. Pull the pistons

          In the spirit of all Bentley's manuals
          "Installation is the reverse of removal"

          Too easy, LoL :devil:
          "And then we broke the car. Again." Mark Donohue, "The Unfair Advantage"

          Das Beast build thread

          Comment


            [QUOTE=dvallis;
            In the spirit of all Bentley's manuals
            "Installation is the reverse of removal":[/QUOTE]

            As if it was that easy! I really sucks you have to pull all that beautiful work apart!
            2004 525i Manual - 1985 325E Coupe Manual

            Comment


              Originally posted by dvallis View Post
              Really appreciate you guys checking that. It's a lot of blog to read.

              It sucks, but is not completely horrible. We're going to:

              1. Get the front frame on jackstands
              2. Take off the head, remove radiator and "some other bits" (HaHa)
              3. Attach a chain hoist, remove the engine mount bolts
              4. Lift the block a bit to get the rack out w/o bending mounting tabs
              5. Remove oil pan, rod bolts
              6. Pull the pistons

              In the spirit of all Bentley's manuals
              "Installation is the reverse of removal"

              Too easy, LoL :devil:

              Damn man, you sound super jovial for having to basically tear down your entire engine! On the plus side though, at least you have a pretty concrete solution.
              1984 325e m50nv/G260
              1991 325i Mortdecai the pickup project
              1991 Trans Am turboLSx/t56
              1984 Husqvarna Abomination

              Comment


                Might be easier to just pull the engine/trans as a unit. You will be a drive shaft and clutch slave away by the time you get to the pistons.
                john@m20guru.com
                Links:
                Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

                Comment


                  Originally posted by ForcedFirebird View Post
                  Might be easier to just pull the engine/trans as a unit. You will be a drive shaft and clutch slave away by the time you get to the pistons.
                  Might do that, depending on the view from a creeper under the car.
                  "And then we broke the car. Again." Mark Donohue, "The Unfair Advantage"

                  Das Beast build thread

                  Comment


                    +1 or I want to hear how it was after trying to juggle all this with the block still in the car! 8^)

                    Originally posted by dvallis View Post
                    ...

                    Crank scraper and gasket going on. This takes patience. Stack up looks like:

                    OIL PAN
                    PERMATEX
                    CORK GASKET
                    PERMATEX
                    CRANK SCRAPER
                    PERMATEX
                    CORK GASKET
                    PERMATEX
                    BLOCK



                    Oil pump, scraper, and pressure relief valve in place.



                    Getting the oil pan bolts on was a PITA, given all the layers of cork and goop but it worked out. Block is sealed up. Ready to start bolting on the "fiddly bits".
                    My M20 Frankenbuild(s)
                    4 Sale - Fully Built TurnKey Megasquirt Plug and Play EMS

                    Comment


                      Hi, awesome work here!

                      I have an short off topic question and want to ask here because I see a lot of megasquirt screens.

                      Is there a megasquirt manual somewhere on the net where nesessary setting are explained?

                      I saw something in the past, but can't find it anymore.

                      Hase someone a link for me?

                      Comment


                        oh man... I missed this. I just spent the week reading this at work. I totally thought we'd be driving by this point! Amazing work and I love your thought processes when troubleshooting and adapting to the build. It has been a very fun read. top notch work and I saw someone said something about Project Binky in previous pages. If you haven't watched that you should, but it might feel a bit like re living the last 5 years... they too have spent about 5 years on their little Mini Cooper Project.

                        Comment


                          Lords Of The Rings

                          Here we go. Changing the rings without removing engine. "Hold my beer. Watch this" ....

                          At least I get to try out every tool in my new set


                          Step 1: Remove everything from the top end. In most cases we left things connected to the car and just zip tied them out of the way.


                          Step: Pull the head and mainifolds as a unit. Surprisingly easy. Shown with turbo re-installed, which was WAY easier on the bench. In retrospect, could have pulled it with the turbo connected.




                          Step 3: While we were here, put "reminder" dots on the timing marks. Yes, that little, tiny, FAINT mark on the Nuke wheel is a TDC timing mark. Not the nice, white marks below to the right.


                          Added same thing to the engine cover and timing wheel.


                          Step 4: Engine connected to hoist, motor mounts disconnected, ready to lift


                          Rob removing bolts on drive shaft and disconnecting shifter.


                          Step 5: Lift engine up & forward. Remove all bolts from oil pan and lower bell housing. Oil pan drops down, a bit. Remove bolts from oil pump on either side. Rob says "@#$$# Teutonic Bastards!"


                          Oil pan drops out. We can avoid the whole oil pump bolt dance next time by cutting a gap in the scraper.


                          Step 6: Remove rod bolts. Bottom half of rods drop out. Push pistons out the top.


                          All that to get here. 6 pistons laid out for inspection


                          1: Ring 2 upside down


                          2: Ring 2 upside down


                          3: Ring 2 upside down


                          4: Ring 2 upside down


                          5: Ring 2 upside down


                          6: Ring 2 correct


                          LoL we were 1 for 6 :devil:

                          Ring research time. Back to whodwho's post. Ring 2 is a taper hook groove / napier. Are there "better" performing rings? When they're not upside down? (Ungh)



                          http://www.deves.com/pistonrings_inst.php
                          http://knowhow.napaonline.com/how-piston-rings-work/
                          http://korihandbook.federalmogul.com/en/section_19.htm
                          Last edited by dvallis; 08-04-2019, 01:08 PM. Reason: More info
                          "And then we broke the car. Again." Mark Donohue, "The Unfair Advantage"

                          Das Beast build thread

                          Comment


                            Rings and things

                            We definitely have the right rings. Pistons are stock M20B25, we're using Deves 2297

                            From Deves web site


                            Per Deves, install oil oil scraper ring with notch down. Or "RTFM Sir" as I was told in the military.


                            Our oil rings are correct. 4 piece: top, middle, bottom and expander


                            This thread was useful. Root cause for his smoke was incorrect oil rings. Good tidbits below though.

                            jlevie: "When I build an engine I use Brad Penn 20-w50 oil, prime the oiling system with an electric drill, bring the engine up to temperature while bleeding the cooling system, and break it in by a 30 minute run at a constant 2500rpm. The rings will seat and the smoke will stop after 5-10 minutes."

                            blackbirdm3: "It took me a good 300 miles on my Datsun engine the first time I rebuilt it. I was also using Deves rings at the time. I knew exactly when the rings seated because the sound of the motor changed slightly and it started pulling like a freight train. If I remember correctly, the oil consumption was a bit on the high side till that point. I was also keeping the revs below 4k rpm, and didn't go above that till 500 miles, adding 1000 rpm for every 100 miles after that."

                            blackbirdm3: "Never use a synthetic oil for the first 3000 miles. I've been told that by various machinists and engine builders who know far more than I do."

                            exodus 2pt0: "When I rebuilt my 2.0T it smoked for about 300 miles until the rings seated. Compression went for 130psi after first start up to about 180psi around the time it stopped smoking.... Then again I did not lap the cylinders, due to being plasma coated, so that explains the 300 miles."

                            My conclusions
                            1. Five out of six scraper rings incorrectly installed
                            2. We incorrectly used synthetic oil during break-in
                            3. Some smoke on startup is normal after rebuild
                            4. Smoking should stop after 30 minute 2500 break-in
                            Last edited by dvallis; 08-04-2019, 03:14 PM. Reason: Typo
                            "And then we broke the car. Again." Mark Donohue, "The Unfair Advantage"

                            Das Beast build thread

                            Comment


                              Were the ring gaps oriented like that when you pulled the pistons? They're supposed to be offset to opposite sides from one another. And is the exhaust still pointed at the rear tire? If you're blowing smoke (and oil), that will be a huge problem.
                              '91 325i

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Nader393 View Post
                                Were the ring gaps oriented like that when you pulled the pistons? They're supposed to be offset to opposite sides from one another.
                                During the assembly, that is (almost) correct. Once the engine is started, one has no control where they will end up.

                                How are those cylinder walls looking? just wondering....

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X