Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

ForcedFirebird's m20 dyno thread.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    ForcedFirebird's m20 dyno thread.

    Been asked a few times to share some m20 dyno files. Not sure how many are in the folder, the dyno tower PC crashed and lost a bunch, some files where customers prefer to no make public, so will share what I can. Have a ton of files and prefer to be thorough with explanations, guides and hints, so may be slow going.

    To start, a bone stock 200k mile 325i, WOT switch on the TPS was inop, so it's weak on power. This is what happens when the m20 TPS goes bad and the ECU does dot receive a WOT signal. The ECU stays in closed loop and reads the o2 sensor, which "should" be ignored at this time. Note the AFR's.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	m20 bad wot tps example.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	69.1 KB
ID:	7252623

    Here is what happens when the TPS WOT switch is functional. Note the power increase and smoothness of the AFR curve.

    Click image for larger version

Name:	m20 bad wot tps fixed.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	65.2 KB
ID:	7252624

    And overlay for the dramatic effect....

    Click image for larger version

Name:	m20 bad wot tps side by side.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	69.2 KB
ID:	7252625

    Don't go to the dyno to see how much power your 30 your old engine is making without checking up on it's condition. All to many times we see things like this on "perfect running condition" cars.

    So, in the next post, we will go through a checklist to make sure your m20 is in top running condition.
    john@m20guru.com
    Links:
    Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

    #2
    With typical DIY/mechanic tools (or help of a friend), these are some things to look for.

    M20 health checklist:

    Blue coolant sensor for the ECU : 300-330ohm at operating temp
    TPS switch : Check for pin short at WOT and idle. Adjust/replace if necessary. Don't forget to check cable too!
    o2 sensor : .9v at operating temp at idle on the signal wire
    CPS : 540ohm +/- 40ohm, .030" air gap (thick business card is a great shim), check chaffing at back of water pump pulley
    Spark plug wires : <7ohm, longest ones may be a little higher
    Idle fuel pressure: ~43psi with regulator line disconnected and capped
    Running fuel pressure : ~43psi at 4000rpm under load (many bad regulators in the past few years, check it)
    Fuel volume : >1ltr in 15sec with fuel pump energized
    Spark plugs : Stock m20 ignition system works best with single electrode copper plugs. I use wr8lc for stock engines, pbr7es on turbo and high compression (+/- heat per app).

    EDIT as of 5/8/18:

    When checking your sensor values, use the DME connector, NOT the actual sensor. Happened again and reminded me that if the DME doesn't see the same value the sensor connector does, so, your ECU will obviously be making wrong computations based on input if you have high/low resistance in the wiring, or could have corrosion on the connectors.
    Last edited by ForcedFirebird; 05-18-2018, 09:55 PM.
    john@m20guru.com
    Links:
    Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

    Comment


      #3
      Here's a tired engine. All components working properly, but it had 155-160psi cranking pressure.


      Click image for larger version

Name:	worn out se30 160 155psi.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	70.9 KB
ID:	7196574

      Amazingly, just a quick map of the Motronic actually did something on the poor guy.

      Click image for larger version

Name:	worn out se30 160 155psi with chip.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	74.3 KB
ID:	7196575
      john@m20guru.com
      Links:
      Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

      Comment


        #4
        Take an m20, add an m52 84mm crank, 130mm rods, and 84.5mm pistons, but leave the block at full height (no bueno imo). 272 IE cam, basic rebuild beyond that (stock ECU).

        Click image for larger version

Name:	84mm stroke 84-5 pistons 130mm rods full height block.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	72.4 KB
ID:	7196576
        john@m20guru.com
        Links:
        Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

        Comment


          #5
          This is a typical Spec e30 freshly finished. Guy built his car from a street car. Just went through and made sure everything was tip top (so was implied). After a couple hours of replacing a couple faulty sensors, adjusting throttle cable/TPS and the like....dyno pulls later. (EDIT: he had a "cheater chip" that made less power than stock, just made noise until 7k tach indicated)

          I consider this a healthy example of a used up m20. No PS, no AC belt, Spec e30 exhaust (open 2.25" single with 14" resonator), but not far off of a fresh rebuild.

          Click image for larger version

Name:	typical spec e30 dyno check and tune up.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	79.1 KB
ID:	7196577
          Last edited by ForcedFirebird; 04-17-2018, 04:20 AM.
          john@m20guru.com
          Links:
          Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

          Comment


            #6
            Are these numbers plain rwhp, so not DIN or SAE.

            Comment


              #7
              Neither it's EEC which is basically same as SAE
              89 E30 325is Lachs Silber - currently M20B31, M20B33 in the works, stroked to the hilt...

              new build thread http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=317505

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by hasa View Post
                Are these numbers plain rwhp, so not DIN or SAE.
                Ironic you asked. If you look at the screen shots, they are in EEC. Almost spot on for SAE, which is usually what I prefer to display. Local racing requires SAE and smoothing factor 5 for HP/WT classes. The program just defaulted to EEC.

                It's corrected wheel power based on conditions. Not estimated brake power as some dynos.

                The DynoJet is owned by a local friend at STP Motorsports. Regularly calibrated and updated. I keep all the raw WinPEP files, so it's not difficult to re-display them accordingly if you would like to see alternative correction factors.
                Last edited by ForcedFirebird; 04-18-2018, 04:56 AM.
                john@m20guru.com
                Links:
                Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

                Comment


                  #9
                  subscribed.

                  I need to go through that checkup. Am I crazy for thinking that 140-150whp is actually pretty good for a used M20?!

                  I want to dyno mine soon just to see what a "200k" M20 with a sssquid chip & 19# Injectors makes
                  Simon
                  Current Cars:
                  -1986 BMW 325e & 1968 Datsun Roadster 2000
                  Previous Car Count : 21 ... and climbing...
                  Originally posted by Melon
                  Let it be known to all. Simon fucking keeps it real.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Any interest in having other peoples m20 dyno plots here (with engine description) or would you like to just have yours?

                    Instagram: Reichart12

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Here is an eta 2.7 with 885 head and 272 cam a client brought in to chip tune. They normally make a tad bit more that this, but not by much (~135hp/150tq or so). As you can see the top of the graph gets bumpy, which indicates an ignition issue, so we didn't waste the dyno time. He never did come back before selling the car.

                      Click image for larger version

Name:	eta with 885 head.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	73.8 KB
ID:	7196596
                      john@m20guru.com
                      Links:
                      Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

                      Comment


                        #12
                        A well used m20 we put a fresh head, Racing Dynamics headers and a nice exhaust. This is before/after chip tuning. As you can see the peak power moved only slightly, but power under the curve is increased.

                        Click image for larger version

Name:	m20b25 with RD headers tuned.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	74.2 KB
ID:	7196597
                        john@m20guru.com
                        Links:
                        Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by 2mAn View Post
                          subscribed.

                          I need to go through that checkup. Am I crazy for thinking that 140-150whp is actually pretty good for a used M20?!

                          I want to dyno mine soon just to see what a "200k" M20 with a sssquid chip & 19# Injectors makes
                          Chips see about 5whp/tq gain on an otherwise stock motor. The injectors don't do anything for power, the m20 doesn't over tax the stock ones. ;) I would say 145whp is an average for a stock used m20. Healthy m20's in Spec trim (open 2.25" exhaust, no accessories) make low/mid 150's, our in house Spec engines go into the upper 160's. One local has our Spec engine in his endurance car and it's well over 170 with headers/exhaust and chip.

                          Originally posted by Reichart12 View Post
                          Any interest in having other peoples m20 dyno plots here (with engine description) or would you like to just have yours?
                          Wouldn't hurt to see others. I've just been using the same dyno for about seven years now, so there's no variation on these.
                          Last edited by ForcedFirebird; 04-18-2018, 04:52 PM.
                          john@m20guru.com
                          Links:
                          Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Well used m20 we put a fresh head, 272 cam, Extrudabody ITB's and MS PnP ECU.

                            Click image for larger version

Name:	Extrudabody m20.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	68.7 KB
ID:	7196598
                            john@m20guru.com
                            Links:
                            Transaction feedback: Here, here and here. Thanks :D

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Do us dirty and post up a 3.xL if you got any :p
                              Originally posted by wholepailofwater
                              Q
                              :devil:


                              WTB: Dove Grey e36 Front Door Panels (2 door)

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X