Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

M42 from E36 into E30

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #46
    Goodies Arrived! Ya know, it feels like less stuff than when I ordered it. Waiting on some Hylomar to get here before I can get cracking bolts.



    Workspace ready, will be starting with the rear main seal on Monday. I'm also going to get the R12(!) purged from the car on Monday.

    1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
    2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

    Comment


      #47
      Couldn't wait until tomorrow! Small Pic dump.

      Got the Timing Case covers off and the Rear main replaced. Going to get the timing case covers cleaned up and re-installed tomorrow.

      Old Rear Main, not leaking, but hell, the motor is out!


      Notes for future M42 hobbyists: Seal kit with carrier is part no. 11142247867, it comes with all the bolts for the carrier and the seal for the block face to carrier. It also comes with a "support bushing" that is used for installation that I didn't take a picture of. Basically, you install the support bushing into the seal and use it to keep the lip of the rear main seal from folding over. The two bottom bolts are 13mm Torque: 22NM, the four upper bolts are 10mm torque: 10NM. They had blue (medium) threadlocker on them. The new bolts did not have threadlocker preinstalled, but TIS recommends it. It also recommends lubricating the crankshaft hub, I didn't because I didn't read it before doing it, however the installation went fine. Let me know if I should re-do it.

      New Seal installed before torquing make sure the dowels are not damaged and the carrier seats around them (2nd pic)



      Upper timing cover off. Notes: all bolts are the same length for the upper timing cover


      Lower timing cover off. Notes: Many different sizes of bolts here. I used a piece of cardboard with a diagram of the lower timing case to keep track of which length goes where.



      Here you can see the updated deflection rail in place of the Idler gear in the E30 version



      Interesting to see how the timing tensioner actually works


      Have to clean up the mating surface for the thermostat housing, that paper gasket sucks to remove. Notes: Upon re-installation I use a thin coat of Drei Bond 1209 (or hylomar blue) on both sides of the paper gasket. This does two things, one: seals better as usually these motors have pitting here that the paper gasket can't compensate for Two: makes removal and cleanup easier the next time you have to replace the thermostat.

      Interestingly, this engine had a metal gasket that was one piece for both upper and lower timing cases. It was a later update that supersedes the paper multi-piece gasket, apparently they are bilaterally exchangeable according to RealOEM. Both kits are still available from BMW. Clearly it doesn't work any better, as this one was leaking pretty badly, with oil in the usual place of the lower passenger side of the engine and the crank position sensor. I will be using the paper gasket with hylomar blue on both sides all the way around to try to stave off future oil leaks that this motor is known for here.
      1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
      2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

      Comment


        #48
        Side note on the RMS. The new seal appears to be a PTFE composition which should be installed dry, even though TIS suggests to lubricate the seal. Anyone have any input?
        1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
        2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

        Comment


          #49
          Ugh, put the timing covers back on....


          And I have a leak. It doesn't even have any oil in it! I can't imagine what the leak would be like when it runs. It's leaking from the profile gasket, in the photo you can see the gasket is folded over on the corner. I tried prying it out from behind the seal, no joy, joint is too tight. Off comes the head! Funny enough, someone PM'd me about doing the profile gasket while it's out of the car, I told him I'd rather not pull the head if it's unnecessary, turns out it is. Also, when I did the head gasket on the motor that's currently in the car, I got impatient with Pelican and ordered a profile gasket and head bolts from the local dealer, so I already have the bolts and gasket, just need to order the HG. Hopefully I won't have to surface the head.
          1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
          2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

          Comment


            #50
            That will always leak unless you assemble the joint with some RTV. Just a dab on each ends of the profile gasket where they butt up against things. You might need to not have the Hylomar in there to help it seal.

            Also, it looks like the upper timing cover may not be properly seated. The proper procedure is to use some spare M6 bolts and the valve cover (with no gasket) to clamp the upper timing cover down, compressing the profile gasket before fully securing all of the front bolts. It should then be perfectly flush with the top of the head where the valve cover seats.

            If you pull the head, get it surfaced. It isn't worth saving the $160 to risk it not sealing properly.

            You can in fact do the timing case with the head on. It is a big pain in the ass, but I have done it a couple of times. With the engine on a stand, it should be easier. The real bear is shoe-horning it back under the head without shifting the inner profile gasket. I have used a big sheet of 0.003" brass shim stock to act as a slip surface between the profile gasket and head, and then yanked it out after getting the timing case in. My "lubricant" was RTV, so I had to act fast before it tacked up.

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by bmwman91 View Post
              That will always leak unless you assemble the joint with some RTV. Just a dab on each ends of the profile gasket where they butt up against things. You might need to not have the Hylomar in there to help it seal.

              Also, it looks like the upper timing cover may not be properly seated. The proper procedure is to use some spare M6 bolts and the valve cover (with no gasket) to clamp the upper timing cover down, compressing the profile gasket before fully securing all of the front bolts. It should then be perfectly flush with the top of the head where the valve cover seats.

              If you pull the head, get it surfaced. It isn't worth saving the $160 to risk it not sealing properly.

              You can in fact do the timing case with the head on. It is a big pain in the ass, but I have done it a couple of times. With the engine on a stand, it should be easier. The real bear is shoe-horning it back under the head without shifting the inner profile gasket. I have used a big sheet of 0.003" brass shim stock to act as a slip surface between the profile gasket and head, and then yanked it out after getting the timing case in. My "lubricant" was RTV, so I had to act fast before it tacked up.
              I actually have dreibond 1209 as is suggested by BMW for the profile gasket joints, it's not leaking there, it's actually leaking at the timing case where the profile gasket under the head is folded over I'll take a picture. I slathered some hylomar over there and I can see it leaking behind it.

              I read your thread multiple times, the timing case is not showing signs of any leakage, so I think pulling the head will be easier, I've done it once before. It also gives me a chance to freshen that seal up, as this motor has potentially 80+k miles and has been sitting, the seal may be a bit dried up

              As for the upper timing cover, TIS says to pry down using a screw driver to compress the gasket while you torque the cover on, that worked well on the motor that's in the car, no leaks there
              1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
              2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

              Comment


                #52
                Just replaced the profile gasket before our race this weekend. We went back and forth on removing the head or not. Ultimately we chose to remove the head and I'm glad we did, there was a fair amount of pitting around the square hole for the profile gasket and I'm not sure we would have been happy with the seal in that area if we didn't pull the head to address it. Using the valve cover we were able to get enough compression on the upper timing cover to compress the gasket and get it to seal properly, but the RTV at the joints/corners certainly helped.

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by OriginalSterm View Post
                  Just replaced the profile gasket before our race this weekend. We went back and forth on removing the head or not. Ultimately we chose to remove the head and I'm glad we did, there was a fair amount of pitting around the square hole for the profile gasket and I'm not sure we would have been happy with the seal in that area if we didn't pull the head to address it. Using the valve cover we were able to get enough compression on the upper timing cover to compress the gasket and get it to seal properly, but the RTV at the joints/corners certainly helped.
                  How did you deal with the pitting?
                  1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
                  2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

                  Comment


                    #54
                    No sandpaper, no Brillo pad, no scotch Brite. We used a skim coat of JB Weld and some water pump specific rtv after it dried.

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Welp, glad I pulled the head, check out the following carnage. Looks like rougetoaster, you were right, a runner is better than a sitter.

                      It started when I saw piston #1


                      Moved the piston down to find cylinder 1's wall pitted and scored



                      closeup of the pitting on cylinder 1


                      On the bright side, both the head and the updated timing case look to be in great shape. with zero pitting on the profile gasket mating surface.

                      Head


                      Profile Gasket Mating Surface


                      Timing Case


                      Residue



                      Oil Pump


                      Relief Valve



                      I suspect that the head that's currently in the car is cracked, so the plan is now to put this head on the old block with the updated timing case from the new block. If that doesn't solve my coolant eating issue, then I'll explore buying a running e36 to do this again.

                      A few questions:
                      1. How's this timing case look? It had some white residue which looked like dried coolant, but I'd be interested in what you think it is and if I should use this on the old motor, or look for another one.
                      2. Shoud I mess with the oil pump or just send it as is? I read something about indexing the pump in another thread, I assume this to mean the flat parts lined up with the crank, correct?
                      3. Should I just pull the oil pump and relief valve and have the machine shop clean up the timing case?
                      4. This timing case already has the updated relief valve, so I won't be messing with it. Should I pull the engine to do all this work, or attempt it in car? I already have new upper and lower pan gaskets and engine mounts.
                      Last edited by Gloff; 05-27-2019, 09:26 PM. Reason: Formatting
                      1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
                      2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Nobody?
                        1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
                        2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Timing case looks good.

                          Replace the OP if budget allows, although I am fairly sure this one is fine.

                          Machine shop does not actually need to touch the T case, including the upper, as long as the head isn't being scraped to nothing.

                          In this case, pull the engine, no reason to suffer extra headache.

                          Comment


                            #58
                            Originally posted by roguetoaster View Post
                            Timing case looks good.

                            Replace the OP if budget allows, although I am fairly sure this one is fine.

                            Machine shop does not actually need to touch the T case, including the upper, as long as the head isn't being scraped to nothing.

                            In this case, pull the engine, no reason to suffer extra headache.
                            Great, thanks for the feedback. Any suggestions for cleaning the timing case surface against the block? Just brakleen and some shop towels? I was thinking of bringing it with me to the Machine shop to have them clean it up.

                            I'm leaning toward keeping the oil pump in place then. Any special instructions for first startup if I do replace it?
                            1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
                            2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Pretty sure I used the most mild abrasive I could find to clean the surfaces, might have been something like steel wool or a scotch brite pad.

                              On first startup fill the system as usual, maybe crank over a few times by hand, then disable the fuel system and gently crank in short bursts until you have oil pressure. Some people with especially stubborn pumps packed them with assembly lube to ensure first crank operation, but in most cases it's probably not necessary.

                              Comment


                                #60
                                Is there a way to tell if you have the chain with the correct amount of slack when reassembling the timing system? I obviously don't want to be a tooth off, and I know about the timing marks on the engine, just want to make sure it's right when I put it back together.
                                1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
                                2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X