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M42 from E36 into E30

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    #76
    Update time!

    Thank you for all the help guys. Got the head off and block torn down to the bottom end. Took a few pictures and hopefully they'll help another M42 owner and added some key search words for future M42 enthusiasts (mods let me know if this is not ok)

    Got the engine on the stand


    Nasty rear main seal carrier:


    Front Covers off


    Lower timing case was leaking for a while:



    Older design metal timing chain guides. All the metal lined ones had cracking in the plastic and the intake side guide was separating from the metal. You can also see the old design idler gear sprocket. Also the exhaust side (tensioner guide) has a different mount on the old design utilizing a circlip.




    Here are all the upper pan bolts on the E30 M42. Second pic shows the hidden ones that are notorious for coming loose inside the pan.




    Here are all the bolts to remove the Timing Case from the block. Make sure you have 13 total removed before trying to pull it off.
    #1 is a 16mm M10 bolt (47NM)
    #2s are two 6mm M8 allen fillister head screws (cap screws) and one 13mm M8 on the upper right on the early M42, and three 6mm allen fillister head on the newer timing case. All three bolts have been superseded to torx bolts. (22NM)
    #3s are M6x20 10mm bolts(10NM)
    #4s are M6x30 10mm bolts(10NM)
    #5s are M8 13mm bolts(22NM)
    #6 is M6x50 10mm bolts (10NM)
    Torque settings in the photo as well.


    Nastyness after removing the the timing case:




    All cleaned up! Used a razor blade held at a slight angle (since it's cast iron) and some brake cleaner and the garbage came off pretty easily.


    One of the lower pan holes was stripped out, and the helicoil came out. I suggest timeserts instead of helicoils, require slightly more work, but well worth it as the inserts are steel and should last and hold torque better. I also cross threaded the new timing case at one of the upper oil pan bolts, so I put a timesert there too! It's nerve racking drilling into the timing case with the open sump right there! Oil helps keep the metal shavings clumped and reduces the chances they fly around.




    These things are amazing. The inserts expand at the bottom to lock it into the hole and is like a sleeve that holds tighter than a helicoil. I've used them to great success on the valve cover gasket bolt holes, luckily I had the kit still from when I did that years ago, just so happened to be M6 thread inserts! SCORE.
    1: Drill out the hole
    2: Countersink to allow the insert to fully seat below the surface
    3: Tap the hole for the insert
    4: Use the tool to put in the insert.


    Google Keywords that will help future M42 tinkerers: M42 Timing Case m42 timing guides m42 rebuild m42 reseal m42 rear main seal e36 m42 head on e30 m42
    1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
    2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

    Comment


      #77
      Anyone know the torque values for the timing chain guide rails?
      1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
      2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

      Comment


        #78
        Originally posted by Gloff View Post
        Anyone know the torque values for the timing chain guide rails?
        I went with 10nm on the fillister head bolts (M6) and 22nm on the tensioner rail mounting bolt (M8)

        Also, for reference, the bolts in the lower timing cover that need to be replaced if you're doing an A/C Delete are M8x30 for the top, and M8x80 for the lower one, you can go as high as M8x85 for the lower one.
        1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
        2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

        Comment


          #79
          Got it back in and just about ready to fire, still need to put the exhaust on and fill with oil and coolant.

          I read in another thread that I should back fill the oil filter housing to prime the oil pump, just pour it down the center bolt hole? Crank it with no spark plugs, and the fuel pump fuse pulled?
          1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
          2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

          Comment


            #80
            Did you pack the oil pump rotors with grease? That probably almost guarantees it will prime the first time you run it. Otherwise, yeah you can try pouring oil into the filter housing to back-prime it. Out of the 2 times I swapped timing cases and one brand new engine, I never bothered with the back-prime, and it primed up within a couple of seconds. Considering the grief other members have had in this area, I'd do the back-prime just to be safe, though.

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by bmwman91 View Post
              Did you pack the oil pump rotors with grease? That probably almost guarantees it will prime the first time you run it. Otherwise, yeah you can try pouring oil into the filter housing to back-prime it. Out of the 2 times I swapped timing cases and one brand new engine, I never bothered with the back-prime, and it primed up within a couple of seconds. Considering the grief other members have had in this area, I'd do the back-prime just to be safe, though.
              I did not, but I did oil it up when I put it back together. As far as back priming, I don't know how it all works with the passages, do I just pour oil down the center bolt hole, or in the housing itself around the hole?

              Filter in after loading it up? I plan to crank it without the plugs in, I've read the oil pressure light will go out while cranking, is that right? Also, any relay to pull for the spark or just leave the leads loose?
              1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
              2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

              Comment


                #82
                Some people have had success doing the entite first start fill via the oil filter housing, although I believe they used both orifices and then added the filter/more oil to cover the filter.

                Pull the leads at the coils. The light should go out if all is well.

                Comment


                  #83
                  You can either just unplug the injector harness, or pull fuse #11 which disables the fuel pump. The only way to disable the coils is to unplug them, as toaster mentioned. This may cause an error code to be stored in the ECU, but it will probably clear up or you can just disconnect/reconnect it to clear it out.

                  In the filter housing, the center bore is the clean oil outlet, and the outer ring is where the "dirty" oil from the pump comes up. Now that I look back at photos, I am not sure if you can actually back-prime the pump at all since there is a check valve on the inlet from the pump. Dumping oil into the outfeed side of an air-filled pump (without it being able to get back into the pump) seems like it might actually make priming more difficult. An air-filled pump will have an easier time pushing out a bunch of air from the engine's passages than it will pushing a bunch of cold oil out.

                  If you put some oil into the pump before reassembly, I would just try cranking it without pouring anything into the filter housing or any of that. As I mentioned, I have never had an issue after a timing case rebuild.

                  See photos here for some reference:
                  https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...d.php?t=407088

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by bmwman91 View Post
                    You can either just unplug the injector harness, or pull fuse #11 which disables the fuel pump. The only way to disable the coils is to unplug them, as toaster mentioned. This may cause an error code to be stored in the ECU, but it will probably clear up or you can just disconnect/reconnect it to clear it out.

                    In the filter housing, the center bore is the clean oil outlet, and the outer ring is where the "dirty" oil from the pump comes up. Now that I look back at photos, I am not sure if you can actually back-prime the pump at all since there is a check valve on the inlet from the pump. Dumping oil into the outfeed side of an air-filled pump (without it being able to get back into the pump) seems like it might actually make priming more difficult. An air-filled pump will have an easier time pushing out a bunch of air from the engine's passages than it will pushing a bunch of cold oil out.

                    If you put some oil into the pump before reassembly, I would just try cranking it without pouring anything into the filter housing or any of that. As I mentioned, I have never had an issue after a timing case rebuild.

                    See photos here for some reference:
                    https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...d.php?t=407088
                    I saw that thread, and I thought that as well. Last night I took apart the old oil pump, and its a straight shot from the pickup to the pump, so when you drain the oil, it should drain out of the pickup tube and leave the pump sorta dry anyway. I'm just gonna fill the sump with oil the normal way and crank without the fuse 11.

                    Thanks guys!
                    1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
                    2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Oil pressure came up after about five 5 second cranks with the plugs out. Hooked everything up, and getting a no-start right now. How do I check to make sure I have fuel pressure? It's not even trying, so I'm not sure if it's just not getting fuel.

                      Edit: No spark, pulled one of the plugs and cranked it while grounding the plug, no joy. Not sure where to start. Crank Position sensor?
                      Edit Edit: swapped the Crank Sensor with the one from the old motor, still no joy. Stomp test shows 1444(no codes). kinda lost now.
                      Edit Edit Edit: CPS checks out for resistance. Could it be cranking it with the plug wires disconnected from the coils? Ran fine before the whole engine out thing.
                      Last edited by Gloff; 07-24-2019, 10:57 PM.
                      1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
                      2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

                      Comment


                        #86
                        OK, so you are fairly sure that you are getting fuel delivery?

                        You plugged the crank sensor into the bottom receptacle on the wiring box under the intake?

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by bmwman91 View Post
                          OK, so you are fairly sure that you are getting fuel delivery?

                          You plugged the crank sensor into the bottom receptacle on the wiring box under the intake?
                          I know for a fact I'm not getting spark, but I'm not sure on fuel either, the plug in cyl 1 wasn't wet, but did smell like fuel.

                          Crank sensor is plugged in to the bottom receptacle

                          Edit: Fuel fuse #11 was put back and is not blown
                          Last edited by Gloff; 07-24-2019, 11:30 PM.
                          1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
                          2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

                          Comment


                            #88
                            She's alive! disconnected the battery terminals overnight, one of the coil connectors was a little loose, so that may have been the culprit. Lifters are clacking away, but could just be some normal run in, I remember them being loud on first drive when I did the original head gasket.
                            Last edited by Gloff; 07-25-2019, 11:40 AM.
                            1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
                            2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Good times. If the coil connector is not fully seated with the lock bracket all the way down, then it could very well have not been making contact. Granted, it should run on 3 cylinders, so it seems like it that was not the full cause. Unplugging the battery would reset all the stored adaptations in the ECU, which should have already been clear if the battery was unplugged before. Double check that the main 88 pin connector on the ECU is fully seated...it is easy to get it cocked such that the clasp is closed, but the left side is not properly engaged in the interlock and half of the pins are making partial or no contact. Also check that the main relay and others are fully seated.

                              Ticky lifters usually go away after a dozen seconds or so. Maybe post a video. Were the lifters and stuff cleaned when the head got disassembled for machining? They might just be a little gunked up if they were not cleaned, and you could try running additives like LiquiMoly lifter cleaner or Rislone for the next thousand miles or so.

                              Lastly, as far as oil goes (and particularly since you live in a nice warm climate), Mobil1 15W-50 full synthetic is the best option for these engines. It has some of the highest ZDDP content of any commercial street-car oil, which is crucial for our flat-tappet type lifters. Typically when you use Rislone or other mild detergent additives, you want to dump the oil after 1-2K miles since it loses a little lubricity from the additive. It's a little unfortunate since the synthetic oil is not super cheap, but it's worthwhile to clean out an old gunky engine.

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by bmwman91 View Post
                                Good times. If the coil connector is not fully seated with the lock bracket all the way down, then it could very well have not been making contact. Granted, it should run on 3 cylinders, so it seems like it that was not the full cause. Unplugging the battery would reset all the stored adaptations in the ECU, which should have already been clear if the battery was unplugged before. Double check that the main 88 pin connector on the ECU is fully seated...it is easy to get it cocked such that the clasp is closed, but the left side is not properly engaged in the interlock and half of the pins are making partial or no contact. Also check that the main relay and others are fully seated.

                                Ticky lifters usually go away after a dozen seconds or so. Maybe post a video. Were the lifters and stuff cleaned when the head got disassembled for machining? They might just be a little gunked up if they were not cleaned, and you could try running additives like LiquiMoly lifter cleaner or Rislone for the next thousand miles or so.

                                Lastly, as far as oil goes (and particularly since you live in a nice warm climate), Mobil1 15W-50 full synthetic is the best option for these engines. It has some of the highest ZDDP content of any commercial street-car oil, which is crucial for our flat-tappet type lifters. Typically when you use Rislone or other mild detergent additives, you want to dump the oil after 1-2K miles since it loses a little lubricity from the additive. It's a little unfortunate since the synthetic oil is not super cheap, but it's worthwhile to clean out an old gunky engine.
                                The lifters were not cleaned when disassembled, but they probably drained a little when pulled, so I'll run it for a while and go from there. Last time I did the head gasket, I remember being concerned that the tick didn't go away quickly, and shut it down, next run, they quieted down almost immediately

                                I've run amsoil for a while now 20W-50. Right now. Using O'Reilly brand 20w-50 and will be changing it after about 100 miles
                                1991 BMW 318i Alpinweiß II Slicktop 231,000 Miles Build date: Wednesday, 1/30/1991
                                2003 BMW Z4 2.5i Sterlinggrau Metallic 112,000 Miles Build Date: Monday 12/9/2002

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