1UZ (w/ SC in future)

[MaxBell]

I'll chime in to say that I swapped a 1UZ from an SC400 into an AE86 with the R154 with a custom bellhousing out of Australia. Then the rest of the Supra rear end (diff axles etc) I swapped in later to take the power.

It's a fantastic swap, tons of power.

[jalopi]

Yep, plenty of room for a supercharger pulley in the car the engine was designed for... not so much with our short ass, narrow ass engine bays.



Couldn't find a better pic of a 1uz in an e30 and I can't find the 1uz dimensions with a quick google search so this'll have to do.

I'm not saying it won't work, but the pulley will most likely be very, very close to that skinny radiator. If I went forced induction I'd definitely want a thicker radiator than that.

[enildeR]

From what I've heard the v160 isn't much better than the r154, you're just paying a premium for the 6th gear.

Check and see if there's an adapter plate for the t56. They can handle some serious power -and- can be had for around $1k.


The only comment I have about the supercharger (aside from how it'd probably be pretty awesome) is that you might not have enough room for the pulley. I'll take some measurements & pictures of my engine bay tonight; I don't remember how long the 1uz is, but I think it's roughly the same as the 302.

Yeah, I was doing a bit more researching. T56 is pretty good, but they'll shit themselves, too, after a certain point.

Here's a pretty good writeup about the failings of the T56.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/ghtp_1207_t56_transmission_torque_doubling_no_guts_no_glory/

It's a good article to understand what would need to be upgraded on other gearboxes to handle a bit more power. Triple cone synchros, bigger bearings.

Luckily, there's a TR6060 and the T56 Magnum, which has the 6060 internals in the T56 case. There's an adapter for the T56, but I'm not entirely sure if the Bellhousing is diff on the TR6060. The Magnum is the same cost of a R154 rebuild, but you don't have to source a R154, so it's actually cheaper. I believe the T56 Magnum would win out against the R154 in how much power it could handle.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Hurst-Driveline-Conversions/Hurst-Driveline-T-56-6-Speed-Transmissions/1413609/10002/-1

I'm actually leaning towards a 350z CD009 gearbox right now. Z1motorsports sells factory ones for 1699, and the new ones fixed the sychro problems. Friend that has a TT 350z that is putting down over 600rwhp has one and hasn't had a problem. The adapter is cheap. Just have to worry about the clutch components.

As for the pully... Where do you think it's not going to have room? I've seen some pics of a SC'd 1UZ. There should be plenty of room, tho most of those pics have either the 1st or 2nd gen 1UZ, where as the VVTi is a lil different in the front. Plenty of info on the 1UZ in general and about supercharging it here:
http://planetsoarer.com/indexfull.html (Soarer = SC400)

Also saw on that site that Jaguar made a badass dual intercooler supercharger intake manifold. Might Look in to sourcing one.

[enildeR]

Came home to a delivered 1UZ. I lucked out. They included the computer, which wasn't listed in the ebay page. It only listed the harness. Luckily, they didn't cut the harness, so I have the pigtail.




Looks like I'll be able to get this running faster than I anticipated. I'll just use the stock computer (hopefully) for a while and then put the EMS in.



By 10:30pm, I had took most of top stuff off, harness and intake mainly.



I'll continue with it tomorrow when I get home from work and take the heads off.

My Mishimoto oil cooler also came in today, but I was too tired to snap a pic. It'll help keep my mind at ease. I want this engine to last as long as possible.

[The Dark Side of Will]

More times than not, that 4-puck, unsprung hub will kill even your stock box.

Sprung vs. unsprung doesn't matter. The springs don't absorb enough torque before they bottom out to provide any meaningful cushion to the driveline.

I've been almost daily driving a sprung hub 4 puck for a couple of years with close to double my stock transmission's rated power and haven't broken it yet. I don't spare the horses, but I don't do dumb things like clutch dumps either. Car is a 1987 Pontiac Fiero with Cadillac Northstar V8.

The stock flywheel is fairly light at 16#. The same combo with a heavy flywheel is a lot harsher on the driveline, as the higher mortality rate of these gearboxes behind Chevy V8's with the heavier 30# swap flywheel indicates.

[jalopi]

From what I've heard the v160 isn't much better than the r154, you're just paying a premium for the 6th gear.

Check and see if there's an adapter plate for the t56. They can handle some serious power -and- can be had for around $1k.


The only comment I have about the supercharger (aside from how it'd probably be pretty awesome) is that you might not have enough room for the pulley. I'll take some measurements & pictures of my engine bay tonight; I don't remember how long the 1uz is, but I think it's roughly the same as the 302.

[enildeR]

V160 is quite spendy on ebay. So are the R154s. If I'm going to spend that much money on a gearbox, I'd rather get the M-DCT and stay NA.

2.3L whipple can be had on ebay for $2.5k. I'm not worried about that. The kits are what is spendy because of the parts and the R&D that went in to them, but I can't use those. I'd scrap most of the parts in the kit in to the bin because they wouldn't fit right. Dropping $1k for a 1UZ took two seconds for me to decide. Dropping $2.5k for a SC is not an issue. What I'm trying to deal with here is getting the proper gearbox, but also sourcing some feedback as to alternatives to the high priced V160/R154 solutions out there to see if there is a cheaper solution. Hell, I could drop $2.8k on a Tremec TKO600 and not have to worry about it. Hell, there's even some BMW guys saying that the M-DCT can handle over 500 no problem and they're rated for less to cover their asses. R154 is expensive because they're in demand now. $2.5k for a good one. However, BMW gearboxes are cheap because they're not in such high demand. My question was "are there any BMW gearboxes I should look at"? to save money, but would handle the power.

Oh. I was a dreamer all right. I dreamed about what kind of projects I would do, and I was methodical about it because that's how I am. I would plan out every detail because I'm a perfectionist. However, I never had the money to do those projects. I was a kid looking in to the window of a candy store always drooling.

Now, I have the money. Though, I'm not going to just throw it at peeps to get my shit done. I'm going to look at ways I can save money. Gearbox is one I can save money on, but I have to be careful about it. That's the point of this dialog. You seem to miss that point. This thread wasn't for discussing the merits of supercharging an 1UZ.

[enildeR]

Heavy flywheels kill gearboxes. Sprung hubs don't matter.

More times than not, that 4-puck, unsprung hub will kill even your stock box.

do you really think a 1uz will output more even with a supercharger (that doesnt come stock)?

Yes.

I'm not sure what you're implying with the parenthetical.

Of course it will not be stock. Most of the intake will have to be fab'd, the water-to-air intercooler under the SC will be custom or from other some other SC kit that just happens to fit. Custom work is nothing new to me. I took 2 1/2 years of industrial mechanics in high school. It covered everything from rebuilding a ford small block, wiring up a VW bug from the ground up, to welding with an acetylene torch. I've been working on engines since then. (Guess how old I am?)

A supercharged stock 1uz puts down how much? How much boost can it really make/take out of the box?

It won't be out of the box.

Depends on how much you engineer into the system, e.g. water injection, combustion chamber finessing. It also matters much compression you're running.

Just a reminder, as I stated before: I'm buying rods and pistons for this, and they're not stock OEM parts. When the SC goes on, it will not be stock.

Since I haven't found anyone with a proper twin-screw (internal compression) supercharger on a 1UZ, with exception of this gent: http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12845

We'll have to use his numbers as a general rule for how much will go through the drivetrain.

I was shooting for 600 ft-lbs. He's putting just over 700 ft-lbs down, and he's running 10psi.

Whipple Superchargers are nothing to laugh at. the 2.3L units are typcially put on larger engines. Like 5.3L in trucks/suvs, and it still increases the power substantially. It's compressing 2.3L of air for every revolution ...on a 4L engine. The psi level will easily get to 20, but you can put whatever pully you want on it to adjust. That's Xpsi through the entire RPM range. Completely different than turbos. When it comes to the drivetrain, you have to consider that. It's being subjected to greater forces at all times the throttle is open. If the W58 is great, why is everyone that is making over 400hp/tq wl FI breaking them? Most write-ups on the 1UZ swap recommend the R154 if you're going to do FI.

As I said, the engine will be stock until I tune the system and ferret out any gremlins. I don't want to spend the money on a gearbox that will break later, and then have to spend money on another gearbox that is stronger. I just want to get a box that will handle the stock engine power and still survive when the SC goes in.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I'm not saying they can't.

Just that a W58 is likely to be more fragile behind a supercharged 8 than a turbo 6, even at the same torque output, for the reasons mentioned above.

Usually the dreamers look at the price of a Whipple and shut up quickly. I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt.

"Foremost turbo petrol engine known to man" is just a little bit of hyperbole...

[Wanganstyle]

He's looking at a Whipple 2300 and built engine... 600 ftlbs is well within reason.

Simply going from vacuum to boost with throttle application is irrelevant. All forced induction mechanisms do that.

However, going from vacuum to boost, the turbo has to accelerate, while the SC is already turning the speed it needs to turn. Thus the SC generates boost as fast as air can move through the system (meaning as fast as a naturally aspirated engine) and the turbo is slower.

Also, the rotating mass of the blower effectively adds to the rotating mass of the engine, making spin ups and spin-downs harder on the driveline.

Dreaming is much different than reality. Show me the built engine and giant blower and ill bet the OP already figured out the gearbox issue years ago.

I'm saying from my own experience that 2j bpu cars are much gnarlier in bpu setup than dreamer 1uz ideas.

One is the foremost turbo petrol engine known to man, the other is a luxo barge engine that is supposed to be silent.



getrag v 161 can fit the 1uz perfectly with adaprer and take 1600rwhp; I've seen them ran stock and pop over 240mph txmile.

[The Dark Side of Will]

He's looking at a Whipple 2300 and built engine... 600 ftlbs is well within reason.

Simply going from vacuum to boost with throttle application is irrelevant. All forced induction mechanisms do that.

However, going from vacuum to boost, the turbo has to accelerate, while the SC is already turning the speed it needs to turn. Thus the SC generates boost as fast as air can move through the system (meaning as fast as a naturally aspirated engine) and the turbo is slower.

Also, the rotating mass of the blower effectively adds to the rotating mass of the engine, making spin ups and spin-downs harder on the driveline.

[Wanganstyle]

Heavy flywheels kill gearboxes. Sprung hubs don't matter.

Check out www.car-parts.com for junk yard parts... Can find some really good deals.



Supercharged torque is harder on a driveline than turbo torque. Turbo torque comes on smoothly, supercharged torque has a much sharper rise time when the throttle is snapped open, especially at high RPM.

The rotational inertia of the supercharger also contributes "flywheel effect" to transient torque when power shifting.

A supercharged stock 1uz puts down how much? How much boost can it really make/take out of the box?

A bpu 1 bar boost twin turbo 2jz puts down more torque. We know it has much higher limits for power max also.

Sheer amount of stress considered not the particular method of boosting.

Blowers are belt driven and constant output in relation to rpm.

Turbos are waste driven and the engine can go from 1 bar vacuum to 1 bar with just throttle application.

Which has more potential for shock to driveline?

[The Dark Side of Will]

Could be clutches, too. I don't think too many people really consider how valuable heavy flywheels and sprung discs are to the longevity of gearboxes. We'll see.

Heavy flywheels kill gearboxes. Sprung hubs don't matter.

Check out www.car-parts.com for junk yard parts... Can find some really good deals.

My 2 turbos and 360rwhp had no issues with a W58; do you really think a 1uz will output more even with a supercharger (that doesnt come stock)?

if comparing power outputs 2JZ is the gorilla in the toyota stable.

the breaking limit of w58 is north of 400rwhp.

Supercharged torque is harder on a driveline than turbo torque. Turbo torque comes on smoothly, supercharged torque has a much sharper rise time when the throttle is snapped open, especially at high RPM.

The rotational inertia of the supercharger also contributes "flywheel effect" to transient torque when power shifting.

[The Dark Side of Will]

1UZ is WAY lighter than any BMW V8

Yeah, not so much.
An engine can only be engineered and produced so light, and both manufacturers are pretty much right there, for '90's technology.

[Wanganstyle]

Well, I will be running it stock until I get everything ironed out and the EMS tuned. ...But more than the rear susp can handle? I'll have to look in to it.

Honestly, after searching transmissions (instead of working), I think I might land up buying the M-DCT from an E92 M3. But the 7th gear is f'n 1:1. I would have to get a new diff if I wanted fuel efficiency when cruising. I LOVE the idea of having a M-DCT but the ratios are insane. Only $3.5k on ebay.

Man, I knew a guy during college that had a Mk1 MR2. Immaculate. Nice turbo. But his was stolen. He was never the same. :( Sorry about the loss. Losing a car like that always sucks. Friend lost his '95 Escort GT that he used to autox in like that. It was insane.



I was looking at the M62 earlier, by chance. Looking on ebay, $2k for one. So def would be cost. But actually searching for M60, I saw one for $1k. I guess it would come down to aftermarket, as I read in another forum, but I may be totally wrong. I do like that the M60 has a self-adjusting chain, as the 1UZ has a huge belt. The 1UZ has the VVT-i. but the B40 is right next to the 1UZ in power. But I'd have to ask which one is more fuel efficient? (Yea yea, "but you're dropping in a V8 ...You _care_ about mileage?") I'd have to step up to the M62TU for variable cam timing. There are plenty of 1UZs on ebay, and mine was a JDM import, so I know it's not going to have more than 50k on it. If I get an M60, could have 280k+ miles on it lol. At least, that would be my concern.

Thanks for the links! I'm adding them to my long list of notes. :)


Well, I see ~448-468, depending on where you're looking, for an M60. Not too much diff.



Yeah, I was thinking W58 in the beginning. After planning for the Whipple SC and how much power it was likely to put out, the W58 would shit itself. Plenty of reading turned up everyone recommending the R154 for FI. I know a lot of gearbox life comes from how you drive, but I don't think the W58 would survive ~600 ft-lbs for very long. But I may have to worry about my suspension more before I get to that point. I just don't like reading about how just about everyone destroys W58s once they up the power output. Could be clutches, too. I don't think too many people really consider how valuable heavy flywheels and sprung discs are to the longevity of gearboxes. We'll see.

I didn't get my engine delivered today. I called them. Turns out they'll call me once they get to my city's distribution center to arrange an appointment for delivery. After that, I have *shrug* a month? Get the pistons/rods and put them in with the other little things. I have to finish gutting my M42 out of the way and deal with wiring. So with wiring... maybe two months to figure out what I want to do with the transmission. The M-DCT is tempting me to just stay NA, but I'll have to figure out the propper diff. I had picked up a slip diff from another E30 guy not too long ago. I still have it in a box, and I don't recall which one it was. Guess I can save that for the car-that-will-receive-my-M42-and-G240? I hate spending money on stuff I don't use. :(

Thanks, guys, for the input. I'm going to have plenty to do this weekend.

My 2 turbos and 360rwhp had no issues with a W58; do you really think a 1uz will output more even with a supercharger (that doesnt come stock)?

if comparing power outputs 2JZ is the gorilla in the toyota stable.


the breaking limit of w58 is north of 400rwhp.


IF you actually clicked on the link you would see 1UZ adapters for:

nissan 5 speed from 300zx (good for over 900rwhp)
and nissan 6 speed from 350z (good for similar)

both are cheap as hell and readily avail.

I don't even think you really need to worry about the exact specifics as the car is not together yet; get it running first and then dial it in.