My new m62! bringing this thread back from the grave

[The Dark Side of Will]

I'm not sure I'm following you. If you're using the 6 speed transmission you already have the mount for the sensor right there? You can't place it incorrectly. I used the original sensor and location on my M62 6 speed swap, works great.

He wants to use the 5 speed which does not have the sensor boss, but found a photo of the 6 speed to use in discussing the sensor boss.

[dougie30]

Thanks for all of the info guys i appreciate it.

I figured if the sensor location, gap and angle where so precise and touchy then i would have read about more peoples swaps not starting or misfiring seems like everyone gets it first try so it shoulnt be to hard.

[smalcol]

The 1997 block(B44 non vanos) has the timing mark in the front case but the CPS sensor is in the case of the tranny (you can see it in this pic) it uses the Flywheel same (60-2) wheel type but longer teeth since wheel(flywheel) is a lot bigger and the CPS sensor is at the bottom left(pasenger) of the case. So i understand the logic of what your saying I just read the opposite maybe I'm missing something here.. but anyways I'm going to count on your experience (Jgood..and others) then rely on the internet in general. So Im going to position right in the timing mark.. making sure its nice and square.

I'm not sure I'm following you. If you're using the 6 speed transmission you already have the mount for the sensor right there? You can't place it incorrectly. I used the original sensor and location on my M62 6 speed swap, works great.

[MonkeyMadness]

:d

[Denny]

The 1997 block(B44 non vanos) has the timing mark in the front case but the CPS sensor is in the case of the tranny (you can see it in this pic) it uses the Flywheel same (60-2) wheel type but longer teeth since wheel(flywheel) is a lot bigger and the CPS sensor is at the bottom left(pasenger) of the case. So i understand the logic of what your saying I just read the opposite maybe I'm missing something here.. but anyways I'm going to count on your experience (Jgood..and others) then rely on the internet in general. So Im going to position right in the timing mark.. making sure its nice and square.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I disagree again! No way the properly installed CPS will not read TDC correctly. The crank pulley ONLY installs in the correct position and will only FIRE when TDC is found. The timing is electronically added or substracted from the DME depending on conditions of other sensors..(knock sensors..IAT.CTL...etc..) ...in my case with Megasquirt I will have full control over it.

If you weld it on in the wrong location, it's not properly installed...

Also, for people not using MS or aftermarket management, adjusting the reference angle is much more difficult (like buying a W.A.R. Chip...)

Echoing what JGood said, the location needs to be precise.

There is a timing mark on the M62 timing cover and marks on the pulley. Not sure on the M60 pulley, it would surprise me if there aren't any marks. Online pictures seem to show a couple holes in the M60 pulley, those are probably the timing marks.It's a pain to see with everything in the way, but it's there, I used it to time my engine with a light.

Cool... Thanks! I didn't know they had actual timing marks. Most manufacturers saved costs by eliminating the external timing checks when they switched to fully electronic ignition.

[smalcol]

And, to reinforce again, the sensor needs to be in the right spot if you're using the BMW ECU. From looking at pictures, it appears to be right where the timing mark is on the M62 timing cover. Probably not a coincidence..

[smalcol]

The sensor can read the wheel whenever it is perpendicular and the gap is small enough.

HOWEVER, the ANGULAR LOCATION of the sensor is *very* important.

Say for example, that the DME expects that #1 piston will be at TDC when the sensor detects the leading edge of the first tooth after the missing teeth.

However, if the sensor is installed such that it reads the *trailing* edge of the first tooth after the gap, then ignition timing will be 3 degrees off (retarded in this case) ALL THE TIME.

That's why the exact location of the sensor is very important. There also isn't a timing mark for use with a timing light anywhere on the engine... so you have no way of measuring or verifying whether you got the timing right or not.

There is a timing mark on the M62 timing cover and marks on the pulley. Not sure on the M60 pulley, it would surprise me if there aren't any marks. Online pictures seem to show a couple holes in the M60 pulley, those are probably the timing marks.It's a pain to see with everything in the way, but it's there, I used it to time my engine with a light.

[JGood]

I disagree again! No way the properly installed CPS will not read TDC correctly. The crank pulley ONLY installs in the correct position and will only FIRE when TDC is found. The timing is electronically added or substracted from the DME depending on conditions of other sensors..(knock sensors..IAT.CTL...etc..) ...in my case with Megasquirt I will have full control over it.

If the CPS isn't installed at the exact position it needs to be, ignition timing will be off. If it's located 10* off, the DME will get the TDC signal either 10* ATDC or BTDC.

Ensuring proper CPS location is critical but shouldn't be that hard. Getting measurements from an m60 would help.

[Denny]

You can't just weld something on wherever... Because the crank trigger is how the DME computes ignition timing, EVERY DEGREE MATTERS. It's easy to not get it right on... and if you don't, how will you know? The engine has no timing marks.

The sensor can read the wheel when it is perpendicular and the gap is small enough.

HOWEVER, the ANGULAR LOCATION of the sensor is *very* important.

Say for example, that the DME expects that #1 piston will be at TDC when the sensor detects the leading edge of the first tooth after the missing teeth.

However, if the sensor is installed such that it reads the *trailing* edge of the first tooth after the gap, then ignition timing will be 3 degrees off (retarded in this case) ALL THE TIME.

That's why the exact location of the sensor is very important. There also isn't a timing mark for use with a timing light anywhere on the engine... so you have no way of measuring or verifying whether you got the timing right or not.

I disagree again! No way the properly installed CPS will not read TDC correctly. The crank pulley ONLY installs in the correct position and will only FIRE when TDC is found. The timing is electronically added or substracted from the DME depending on conditions of other sensors..(knock sensors..IAT.CTL...etc..) ...in my case with Megasquirt I will have full control over it.

[The Dark Side of Will]

The sensor can read the wheel whenever it is perpendicular and the gap is small enough.

HOWEVER, the ANGULAR LOCATION of the sensor is *very* important.

Say for example, that the DME expects that #1 piston will be at TDC when the sensor detects the leading edge of the first tooth after the missing teeth.

However, if the sensor is installed such that it reads the *trailing* edge of the first tooth after the gap, then ignition timing will be 3 degrees off (retarded in this case) ALL THE TIME.

That's why the exact location of the sensor is very important. There also isn't a timing mark for use with a timing light anywhere on the engine... so you have no way of measuring or verifying whether you got the timing right or not.

[dougie30]

I disagree. Jeremy "monkey business" installed a CPS in front using the B44 the timing mark is at the same place but the 60-2 wheel is read the same no matter where the CPS is installed. Its more important to make sure the CPS is close and square with the teeth so it reads properly when fabricating a bracket which I plan. You can see the timing mark on the cover with this pic on doing.

I did some reading and i found the same thing, as long as its close to the wheel and square it will still send the proper signal to the dme.

[Denny]

You can't just weld something on wherever... Because the crank trigger is how the DME computes ignition timing, EVERY DEGREE MATTERS. It's easy to not get it right on... and if you don't, how will you know? The engine has no timing marks.

I disagree. Jeremy "monkey business" installed a CPS in front using the B44 the timing mark is at the same place but the 60-2 wheel is read the same no matter where the CPS is installed. Its more important to make sure the CPS is close and square with the teeth so it reads properly when fabricating a bracket which I plan. You can see the timing mark on the cover with this pic on doing.

[dougie30]

You can't just weld something on wherever... Because the crank trigger is how the DME computes ignition timing, EVERY DEGREE MATTERS. It's easy to not get it right on... and if you don't, how will you know? The engine has no timing marks.

yea I understand, I have no idea how im going to tackle that yet..

[The Dark Side of Will]

cool so five speed it is, and all i have to do is weld the brace for the cps on the front timing cover and get the m60 toothed wheel? dosnt seem to bad, thanks for the help.

You can't just weld something on wherever... Because the crank trigger is how the DME computes ignition timing, EVERY DEGREE MATTERS. It's easy to not get it right on... and if you don't, how will you know? The engine has no timing marks.