E36 M3 Iinjectors into an E30 M3

[bmw444]

Injectors

Hi
I just wanted to confirm that you have replaced your old "low impedance "injectors (201's) with later "high impedance" injectors (715's). I've been considering doing this myself but always been wary of the effect on the ECU and indeed if the ECU would even drive the high impedance injectors.
If you have done it with no problems that would be great news for the legions of BMW eta drivers looking to upgrade their injectors.
Thanks for giving it a go.
Chris

[E30_Dave]

HI All,

Final update.

I have now done the long distance run that I was talking about, and I can report that whilst the urban fuel consumption remains 30% reduced and the performance excellent, the long distance constant speed consumption remains resolutely unchanged !... The 40mpg of which the car was capable with its' OE injectors, remains as before.

Now, I was initially hoping for some improvement, but on reflection I now take this as an indication that the injectors are actually a good match for the engine and the OE fuel map.

That's all folks !

Best Regards,

David.

[E30_Dave]

Will,

Plug and Play - with extra 'o' ring.

[BlackbirdM3]

Are these new injectors a plug and play? No mods needed other than the extra o ring? I have a newer set of stock injectors in my car, but I'm always looking for something that is better.

Will

[E30_Dave]

An imperial gallon is more than a US gallon. So that being said I believe the highway rating of a US spec E30 M3 was about 26 MPG US so with the 0.2 gallon available I think a US spec might be able to get 33 MPG. The difference between a US and the rest of the world is the gearbox/final drive ratio.

Hi All,

Don't forget also that my car is a 320is, which has a 2.0 litre S14 engine, although the 0 280 155 715 injectors are also good for a stock M3.

Best Regards,

DS.

[M-technik-3]

An imperial gallon is more than a US gallon. So that being said I believe the highway rating of a US spec E30 M3 was about 26 MPG US so with the 0.2 gallon available I think a US spec might be able to get 33 MPG. The difference between a US and the rest of the world is the gearbox/final drive ratio.

[rcsoundn1]

WOW, Im in for more updates as this progresses

[E30_Dave]

One final update.

It's now two months since I fitted these new injectors.

Today, I took the car to a local garage to have the exhaust emissions checked, and without adjustment, the the CO was hovering at around 1.5%.

Over the last few weeks, I've been watching my fuel consumption, and can now confirm that these injectors have cut the urban fuel consumption by 30%... I was using 30 litres a week just getting back and fore to work; this figure has come down to 20 litres a week, so these injectors paid for themselves in 6 weeks !

I have yet to do a long distance run, but I was able to get 40+mpg on the old injectors, so I'd expect the fuel consumption to be somewhere between 45 & 48mpg if I drive really carefully. This represents a reduction of between 12.5 & 20%.

Best Regards,

Dave.

[E30_Dave]

Bosch Gen III (EV6) injectors for S14 engines

Hi All,

Following on from THIS

Well, we're a month down the line from when I fitted the new injectors, and they're brilliant ! In most respects you wouldn't know that anything was different about the fuel system; and certainly not that the modification was in any way experimental. The car behaves exactly as you'd expect: You turn the key, and it starts from cold, but the consistency of the idle is better, and I think I'm getting a slight improvement in fuel economy; but I'll confirm that in another couple of weeks.

Where I do notice a difference however, is in the performance. Something I used to notice with my 320is, but that I also noticed with my 318is is that on most days, the performance was OK, but not exceptional. Then on some days, for no apparent reason, irrespective of weather, air temperature etc., the car would perform noticeably better - noticeably more willing to accelerate, and begging (much more than usual) to be driven quickly. Since I've fitted these modern injectors, that extra sparkle is always there - consistently. The performance is much more willing, the throttle response is better, and the engine doesn't get "bogged down" at low speed - you're never left waiting for the power when trying to pull out of a junction on to a busy road with a lorry breathing down your neck !

So far these EV6 injectors are a complete triumph - a total success. So much so that if I were using factory standard injectors (particularly in a OE spec engine), I wouldn't even think of sticking with them - I'd use the cross reference chart mentioned in my first post (and no other reference chart), spend some time selecting an equivalent EV6 injector, and replace the old injectors as a matter of course.

The fact of the matter is that you'll spend as much money having the old injectors cleaned than you will buying replacement EV6 injectors (0 280 155 715), and after having spent the money, you'll still have a set of 25+ year old injectors in your engine; and modern injectors are just better - full stop.

Best Regards,

Dave.

[E30_Dave]

**Update**

Hi All,

Further to the above, I went ahead and bought a set of 0 280 155 715 injectors from CS Performance Injectors in The States, and a couple of hours a go, I fitted them.

I did fit and extra 'o' ring at the bottom of each of them to ensure that they couldn't descend too far into the throttle bodies under the pressure of the fuel - remember they don't have any facility to take the retaining clip of the original injectors.

Once everything was back together, I turned the key. It took a few seconds of cranking to get the fuel rail primed, but eventually the engine sprang into life, and settled to a nice idle. The injectors don't sound quite the same as the old ones, but the engine itself sounds fine. In the absence of a gas analyser, I had a quick look at the exhaust for smoke, and a did a quick sniff-test for overfuelling, and everything seemed fine.

I let the engine idle for a minute or two whilst I put the tools away and washed my hands; then I took it for a test drive. The results thus far are that (without any adjustments) the idling is better, though not 100% as it should be (I'll have to get the vacuum gauges out !), there's no stink of neat fuel after stopping the engine, behaviour whilst driving at around 30mph in 3rd & 4th gears is improved, and the engine pulls cleanly from 1000rpm in 5th gear.

As I said, all of the above was done without a gas analyser, and without any adjustments to the fuel system or the throttle bodies, so I'm going to make sure that the throttles are balanced, and then call my local garage and book a short slot on their gas analyser to check the idle settings.

I'll give a further update when this is done.

Cheers

Dave (with a big, self satisfied grin on his face !)

[88Alpine]

To this end, can anyone with the throttle bodies off their engine give me an idea of the angle between the inlet valves in each siamesed pair of ports, with measurement centred at the the injector port please ?

Cheers

DS.

Pm this guy. Maybe he can help as he's selling a set right now.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=330358

[E30_Dave]

S14 injectors.

I just looked for the receipt - it was less than $150 for 4 injectors with shipping.

The S14 won't benefit from a ProCal level service.

Fair comment Chris - that is cheap.

However, if I get lucky the 0 280 155 715 is fairly easy to obtain and are cheaper - potentially cheap enough to take a punt on, and if the injector swap doesn't work, then it doesn't matter too much..

With a view to increasing the choice of injectors available it may be worth looking into injectors which split the fuel stream in two - ideal for a multi valve engine like the S14.

To this end, can anyone with the throttle bodies off their engine give me an idea of the angle between the inlet valves in each siamesed pair of ports, with measurement centred at the the injector port please ?

Cheers

DS.

[UNHCLL]

Hi again all,

88Alpine & UNHCLL - many thanks for your replies. RC Engineering's ProCal service looks good, but expensive !

I just looked for the receipt - it was less than $150 for 4 injectors with shipping.

The S14 won't benefit from a ProCal level service. A standard clean/rebuild/flow test is sufficient to the tune of $24USD/ea.

-Chris

[E30_Dave]

Injector upgrade for vehicles using Bosch 0 280 150 201 / 701 injectors.

Hi again all,

88Alpine & UNHCLL - many thanks for your replies. RC Engineering's ProCal service looks good, but expensive !... I have yet to find a service like that ion the UK - understanding of EFI systems among independent garages in the UK is generally pitiful... I asked a garage to check and set the CO on my 320is a few years ago. The guy took one look under the bonnet and said "I wouldn't know where to start!". I did it for them, and chucked £10 in the tea fund !

spdracrm3 - many thanks for your reply. I had seen Stan Weiss's injector spec page, and found the flow rates inaccurate when compared to the figures given on the Bosch Automotive website. See post No.5 for the link to the spreadsheet I've been referring to, where the "g/min @ 3 bar" figures match Bosch's specs.

Next, let's not forget that the early Porsche 944 used the same injectors as as the E30 M3 & 320is, and it just so happens that my research led me to THIS interesting Porsche related info on the same subject. The youtube spray comparison videos are something of an eye opener, although I have yet to ascertain whether or not the Porsche drivers already have a preferred EV6 type alternative to the 0 280 150 201.

Following on from this, I began looking at the possibility of using an EV6 type injector for their better atomisation, more thorough vapourisation, and lesser propensity for fuel to puddle in the inlet port, which one would hope would lead to better idling, sharper throttle response and perhaps greater fuel efficiency, with no loss of performance.

To that end I have narrowed the selection to seven possible candidates which are split into four basic types, but before I list them, I think it would be useful for anyone thinking about alternative injectors to know my process of elimination.

The criteria were as follows:

Injector Type: EV6
Electrical Connector: Jetronic
Fuel rail connector: Grommet
Manifold connector: Grommet
Flow rate: 172.2 - 187.1 g/min @ 3bar.
Conic Spray Angle: Equal to or less than 19 degrees, but not less than 12 degrees (any greater a spray angle will increase the potential for puddling of the fuel in the inlet port).
Alpha 50 Spray Angle (flow separated into 2 streams): NULL (although with a little more research and a stripped cylinder head, this could be made to work work well with the S14)
Axial deviation of spray pattern: NULL
Spray orientation angle: NULL

Group 1 General Specifications:
186.6g/min @ 3bar.
Operating Pressure 2.7bar.
Conic Spray Angle: 12 deg.
Impedance: 14.5 ohm.

Group 1 Part No.
0 280 155 715
0 280 155 716
0 280 155 915
0 280 155 916.

Group 2 General Specifications:
187.1g/min @ 3bar.
Operating Pressure: 4bar.
Conic Spray Angle: 15 deg.
Impedance: 12 ohm.

Group 2 Part No.
0 280 155 752
0 280 155 931
0 280 155 932

Of these, the group 2 injectors use the standard retaining clip (part no. 13 53 1 274 729), whereas the group 1 injectors would need a little gentle and judicious modification to accept this clip. The presence or otherwise of a clip appears to be dictated by the operating pressure: 3bar and above have them, but anything under doesn't.

Finally, at the risk of going a little on the lean side at max. rpm, WOT, we have Groups 3 & 4:

Group 3 General Specifications:
172.3g/min @ 3bar.
Operating Pressure: 4bar.
Conic Spray Angle: 15 deg.
Impedance: 12 ohm.

Group 3 part no.
0 280 155 890
0 280 155 891

Group 4 General Specifications:
172.2g/min @ 3bar.
Operating Pressure: 3.5bar.
Conic Spray Angle: 15 deg.
Impedance: 12 ohm.

Group 4 part no.
0 280 156 013

Unfortunately, all of the injectors listed operate either above or below the 3bar standard of the motronic EFi system. My preference is for those whose nominal operating pressure are slightly below 3 bar, as I anticipate they'd perform better slightly over pressure than under, which means the preference is for injectors in Group 1.

Constructive comments, observations and/or additional information welcome.

Best Regards

DS.

[UNHCLL]

Chris,

Many thanks for your reply.

The original injectors are still in the car, and I may well have them refurbished, but I thought it was worth trying to find a suitable (more modern, cheaper, and perhaps more efficient) alternative.

In the end it will come down to cost, and I have to be honest, I don't know to exactly what degree they can be refurbished. I don't necessarily believe that they can truly be made as good as a new set of injectors, and if I'm going to spend the money, I'd rather spend it once - so more research needed, and advice and the benefit of the experience of others (including your good self) is most welcome.

The spreadsheet I gave the link to in my previous post is very well set up, and allows easy elimination of injectors outside the desired range of specification, and I've quickly narrowed the field down to only 3 or perhaps 4 alternatives.

I'll amend the original post sometime tomorrow.

Cheers

DS.

Try RC Engineering. They sell and refurbish your injectors. You will also be provided with the data sheet from the bench test thereafter.

Even with international shipping, RC Engineering will be able to recondition and refurbish them to new specs for likely less than new injectors. They come back with a flow report reporting on status of each injector before/after.

I believe total cost is only $250USD for a set of 4?
I've used them for 2.3L & 2.5L S14's, 3.0L M20's, various S50/S52's.

http://www.rceng.com/