The 5 lug swap truth thread!!!!!!!!!!

[Mossman]

awesome, I would definitely be in for that. Only thing is, I have 318ti arms as a bunch of people do, I can't remember if the caliper bolt spacing is the same as E30 arms...I have a feeling in my gut it's a bit smaller?

So how are you doing it, looks like drilled and tapped carriers?

[M-technik-3]

As for the brake issues between the 315mm front rotors and the smaller rears, I have a solution in the works for that as well.
E32 front rotors, along with E28 535i front callipers

Interesting, But no parking brake anymore.

[bimmerteck]

Interesting, But no parking brake anymore.

Throwing a 535i front caliper out back will throw the brake bias off significantly as well. The surface area of the piston is much too large for rear use. ;)

[psyber_0ptix]

Throwing a 535i front caliper out back will throw the brake bias off significantly as well. The surface area of the piston is much too large for rear use. ;)

this.

Rotor diameter isn't everything when it comes to balance.

[IanS_in_Oz]

Throwing a 535i front caliper out back will throw the brake bias off significantly as well. The surface area of the piston is much too large for rear use. ;)

this.

Rotor diameter isn't everything when it comes to balance.

Which is why I have this for fine-tuning



Parking brake will be hydraulic, through a tee-joint into rear line

[psyber_0ptix]

bravo

[bimmerteck]

Which is why I have this for fine-tuning



Parking brake will be hydraulic, through a tee-joint into rear line

The installed proportioning valve is really meant for small changes in a system that is already relatively close to the proper ratio for vehicle weight, tire compound and weight transfer, using it to overcome the large pistons of the 535 calipers is not really optimal and will likely increase your stopping distances. ;)

[mkoneod]

I went this route but did start off with the later Control arms/TR Cabs/GC Spec plates/E36 M complete front mated to my E30's H&R races/billie Sports/Ti rear setup....All in all I am in it for $2k but that includes wheels/new R compound tires...etc.

I more did it because I wanted the 5 lug but the free upgraded front M brakes was the bread winner on this....Zero complaints and because the 16" contour reps fit E36 M brakes, I still avoided going 17" on my E30 which I am a hugh fan of avoiding.

I am 100% happy....Was nervous the whole time of issues but can't come up with any...Fastest so far in the car was 140mph and it felt like an E46 M in stability.(just comparing)

[IanS_in_Oz]

The installed proportioning valve is really meant for small changes in a system that is already relatively close to the proper ratio for vehicle weight, tire compound and weight transfer, using it to overcome the large pistons of the 535 calipers is not really optimal and will likely increase your stopping distances. ;)

With the E36 M3 callipers on the front, the proportioning valve will have difference will not be that great.

There is a huge amount of adjustment in the valve, but will report further when I have them installed

[etxxz]

the valve has a HUGE adjustment. i purchased wilwood one on the front line at the MC... made my 5-lug brakes useful... without a valve, the car brakes trice as worse as a stock e30 on bald tires. m3/318ti here.

[bimmerteck]

the valve has a HUGE adjustment. i purchased wilwood one on the front line at the MC... made my 5-lug brakes useful... without a valve, the car brakes trice as worse as a stock e30 on bald tires. m3/318ti here.

I'm not trying to say that a proportioning valve will not adjust enough, only that it is a sub-par way of correcting an overly-rear biased brake setup on a tandem master cylinder. The correct way would be to use the proper sized pistons in the rear calipers so that very little if any rear bias adjustment was needed, and then use the proportioning valve to fine tune the system. The more the valve is required to adjust for the incorrect piston diameters the greater the change in feedback/pressure to the driver/rear brakes between low pressure braking and harder stops. Below is a excerpt from the stoptech white papers on braking performance, the proportioning valve will work but it would be more beneficial to find a rear caliper with the proper piston size. ;)


"In the case that you must use a tandem master cylinder with a stock-like pedal arrangement
for whatever reason, make sure that your selected master cylinder and the brake caliper
piston sizes for both the front and rear circuits are correct. You will have less than the best
possible brake performance by depending on proportioning valves discussed to correct for the
wrong brake system component sizes being used. These valves are best used at or near their
maximum installed spring preload on cars with tandem master cylinders with a full load of fuel
(presuming the fuel is carried in the back) and on a wet track because the balance will be
more biased to the rear under wet conditions due to lower weight transfer."

http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/Pe...ster-Guide.pdf

[etxxz]

oh. i completely agree with your comments.

now, for the purpose of this thread and general e30 5-lug conversions, you get the opposite. Humongously front biased brakes, so this is where the needle valve should be placed.

after the swap i'm more so an advocate of 4-lug brakes and upgrading them. It is more costly though. Maybe the better solution is to use bigger than 318ti rear brake calipers. Which car from, that's a good question.

Brakes have worked very nicely for me until now though, i can't argue. I have yet to get them to start fading on me and even in the middle of the summer at tracks that are brutal o nbrakes (sebring) and a moded s52.. go figure.

[IanS_in_Oz]

... Humongously front biased brakes, so this is where the needle valve should be placed....

You NEVER put the valve on the front brakes....EVER

You remove the standard proportioning valve under the hood, and replace it with the adjustable one.

Then you use it to control how much pressure you allow to the rear brakes.

In a totally unproportioned setup, the rears will always lock first, so you slowly wind it in until the fronts only just lock up first...

[etxxz]

dude, i removed the rear proportioning valve. and even had the valve there.
it was still hella front biased. Few ways to fix it. bigger rear brakes ($$), back to stock (counterproductive), bias the front. Please enlighten me if this is a safety thing i don't want to kill myself. I've also been tracking like this for over 3.5years and its worked very well always needs a touch up here and there different tracks, tires, temps.

[diegom6]

I'm glad I found this thread. I feel like I have the same issue as mikedel on the highway at certain speeds, even going stright on the highway, while tilting the steering wheel a bit to left-right, the car feels not glued and loose (like if it has too much flex on the chassis). Even in the track doesn't feel any close to my ex e30 m3 with blown shocks and semis slicks when I tracked it, the M3 felt (even with horrible body roll) like a train on rails and much more predictable than my turbo e30.

My setup is as follow>

• 318ti components for the swapp
• E30 Koni shocks (made it to fir the e36 strut housing)
• E36 Cosmos or some shit like that coil over setup from ebay (evetually I changed the front springs to a custom ones for other reasons)
• stock sway bars (front bar has custom poly mounts though)
• e36M3 97+ control arms
• THR cabs with custom 10mm machined to get more caster
• E36 M3/ E30 M3 sway bar large links with welded on strut base
• Vorshlag camber plates
• 16x7 & street tires, 16x8 with semi slicks and currently 17x8-17x9.5 Dunlop Z1 (this is the best tire/size combo I ever ran so far)

[/LIST]Reading a bit here, seems like I will need the king pin = knuckle ? of the E36 M3 which I might gain even more caster? Does someone knows how much more caster can you obtain by just switching this piece?

For brakes I have Wilwood Superlite (largest piston available) custom front calipers/rotors with large e32 MBC and removed rear brake line restrictor and still my rear rotors are rusted in some parts which equals to a non full brake contact which result yet, in a horrible stopping power/distance, really umbalanced.

I might try that front e32 rotors with e28 front calipers if I can find them in the junkyard and source a wilwood proportioning brake valve. Any special P/N for this?

Thanks