Tires & Sizing to get the most grip

[fronton]

Sorry, I came off a little condescending. I have had rubbing issues with 225/45/16 on the fronts and it took a lot of hassle to correct so I don't like recommending wide fronts. I'm also not a fan of staggered setups so that really limits my opinion on rears if the fronts are 225 of narrower. I know you have better front tire clearance than M3s though without the side skirt to contend with so you are probably fine with 225 on ET20 there. R1R does run quite wide. Not as wide as 888s, but nearly.

http://marktg.toyotires.com/file/30251.pdf

[bubbajan21]

Anyone have opinions on the Michelin Pilot Supersport in 215/45 17 in the front and 245/40 17 in the rear? These are the only sizes they make that could work (unless I run 215/45 square or 245/40 square). That's a pretty big spread and I worry about making a car that doesn't handle. Again, I'm not suggesting this is an ideal tire setup, but I'm just wondering if my car's handling would suffer with big tires in back and small tires in the front. I don't want a drag car.

Otherwise, Michelin Pilot PS2's or Continental ExtrememeContact DWs are looking pretty good. PS2's come in 235/40 17 square setup, and the DWs would have to be the same sizes as above (215 & 245)

Thoughts?

[bubbajan21]

Where in MA are you? I'll be in Halifax later this month and your more than welcome to take her for a spin. Just finishing a boosted m20 swap (320 whp)

FLG, I very much appreciate the offer, that is very generous and I'd love to get a feel for the R1R's, but unfortunately I am away in Michigan for the next 2 months. :(

So it seems that the R1R's are not a bad tire based on the two members above who have used them

Fronton; I am not looking to buy tires for looks and I am also open to opinions. I'm not ignorant and I do listen to what everyone has to say. You make valid points and I've opened up my search options to see what else I can fit without being closed in on 235's or 245's. Thank you!

[fronton]

I run a set of r1r's

They haven't seen a track yet as I haven't had the time or money. But running them in the street daily there wonderful, dry or wet. But if used for strictly track or dry days I'd go with a better tire. I needed something good overall as I drive the car a lot. A set of r888s would have probably been better or a slick but than I'd be screwed in rain and also wear out a set of expensive tires very quickly. Also the tread pattern on the r1r's looks awesome just as a bonus.

Have 225/45/16


Where in MA are you? I'll be in Halifax later this month and your more than welcome to take her for a spin. Just finishing a boosted m20 swap (320 whp)

Edit: also be aware toyo tires run a bit wider than there size so make sure you have the room. And noise is no issue, I'm sure you have a decently loud exhaust? It'll probably cover any noise...mine does.

Only pic I have atm


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

I also run R1R 225/45/16 with over 300hp and love them. Again, there is NO need for anything wider, especially with less power. If you want 10" wide tires for looks, then reasoning is futile. Just know that you will mostly likely rub somewhere and wonder what you were thinking when you start hydroplaning. It is true that tire grip is not purely a function of contact patch, compound aside. You need heat for grip and the more rubber there is to heat, the longer it will take to deliver the increased grip. You also add unnecessary unsprung weight and get a less comfortable ride with lower profile tires.

[FLG]

I run a set of r1r's

They haven't seen a track yet as I haven't had the time or money. But running them in the street daily there wonderful, dry or wet. But if used for strictly track or dry days I'd go with a better tire. I needed something good overall as I drive the car a lot. A set of r888s would have probably been better or a slick but than I'd be screwed in rain and also wear out a set of expensive tires very quickly. Also the tread pattern on the r1r's looks awesome just as a bonus.

Have 225/45/16


Where in MA are you? I'll be in Halifax later this month and your more than welcome to take her for a spin. Just finishing a boosted m20 swap (320 whp)

Edit: also be aware toyo tires run a bit wider than there size so make sure you have the room. And noise is no issue, I'm sure you have a decently loud exhaust? It'll probably cover any noise...mine does.

Only pic I have atm


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[bubbajan21]

RS3's are a great bang for the buck race/auto-x/naked driving tire.... I have used them on the track and auto-x... They get warm fast and they hold the heat well and are DAMN NEAR R-compounds when hot. This is just my opinion but I wouldnt hesitate to run these in the rain either despite what the reviews say.

Star specs take a little longer to heat up. When they get hot and pushed they get really greasy from my experience (lowered pressure as temps rose with no help).

The XS tires take longer to heat up but hold the heat better than most, great tire for warmer climates but pricey.

I'm looking for tires for a DD.

[Cronopoulos]

RS3's are a great bang for the buck race/auto-x/naked driving tire.... I have used them on the track and auto-x... They get warm fast and they hold the heat well and are DAMN NEAR R-compounds when hot. This is just my opinion but I wouldnt hesitate to run these in the rain either despite what the reviews say.

Star specs take a little longer to heat up. When they get hot and pushed they get really greasy from my experience (lowered pressure as temps rose with no help).

The XS tires take longer to heat up but hold the heat better than most, great tire for warmer climates but pricey.

[bubbajan21]

GRM Rated the Toyo R1R's at 4th in a review of 6 tires and the Star Specs at 5th out of 6 strictly based on performance in an autocross course :/

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/texas-toasted-tires-part-1/

[Nsquared97]

Figure I'll throw my $.02 into this.

First off, have you looked into the Kumho XS? I have no idea about their sizing and if it would work for you, but they are another decent option for max grip summer tires.

As far as the RE-11's, they are great tires (had them on a different car) but IMO cost too much and really aren't any better than other offerings.

Star specs seem to be a great tire, and are what I would pick. Great wet weather performance, and seem to be the best all around tire in that category.

Also, I would not listen to those Car & Driver articles. I looked through one, and a lot of their results don't make any sense. Instead take a look at the comparisons that Grassroots Motorsports has done on these tires, they know what they are doing when testing tires like this and have good driver's doing the testing as well.

[bubbajan21]

I can't say that I don't like cars with the widest possible tires that will fit in the fenders. However, the width of a tire is inconsequential in how much "grip" it is able to deliver (in the dry). The rubber compound that makes up the tread area is the most important part here. Normally you will trade wear for all out "grip" and as you use this all out "grip" the tire will change. That is the chemical structure of the rubber will be adversely affected by the temperature at which it operates to create friction or grip. After a few cycles it will stop producing as much grip as it started with (design of the tire and compound will affect how drastically this falls off).

For those who believe that the amount of rubber in contact with the road varies based on tire size, consider that if the pressure and load on the tire stay the same then the area in contact with the road will also stay same (P = F/A, where P-pressure, F-force, A-area).

Just a consideration.

In the end it comes down to your priorities for the car. If you desire some capability in the cold...likely a high friction tire is not for you. Rubber has a transition temperature where it will change to a "glassy" material and produce very little grip. This temperature is much higher for high grip tires. If you would like wet performance you need a tread pattern that lends itself to the amount of performance you seek. Noise has other requirements....

and so on.

So by this logic, are you saying I'd be able to get power to the ground better via a 215/45 17 Michelin Pilot Supersport than I would via a 245/45 17 Toyo R1R assuming the Supersport has a better chemical compound for grip??

The logic of "if the pressure and load on the tire stay the same then the area in contact with the road will also stay same" can't be sound because I guarantee you if you have 2 tires with the same compound, same load, and same pressre next to each other, one with a 100mm width and one with a 300mm width, the wider tire will have substantially more grip as it may have the same contact area front to rear in contact with the road, but the width of the contact patch would be ~3 times wider. Aside from chemical makeups of tires, grip is to some extent a function of contact patch and there is no way you can convince me a 100mm wide tire has the same contact patch as a 300mm wide tire. I agree that chemical make-up of a tire is more important than the size of the tire, but to claim that "the amount of rubber in contact with the road does not vary based on size" seems far fetched to me.

[Apps]

I can't say that I don't like cars with the widest possible tires that will fit in the fenders. However, the width of a tire is inconsequential in how much "grip" it is able to deliver (in the dry). The rubber compound that makes up the tread area is the most important part here. Normally you will trade wear for all out "grip" and as you use this all out "grip" the tire will change. That is the chemical structure of the rubber will be adversely affected by the temperature at which it operates to create friction or grip. After a few cycles it will stop producing as much grip as it started with (design of the tire and compound will affect how drastically this falls off).

For those who believe that the amount of rubber in contact with the road varies based on tire size, consider that if the pressure and load on the tire stay the same then the area in contact with the road will also stay same (P = F/A, where P-pressure, F-force, A-area).

Just a consideration.

In the end it comes down to your priorities for the car. If you desire some capability in the cold...likely a high friction tire is not for you. Rubber has a transition temperature where it will change to a "glassy" material and produce very little grip. This temperature is much higher for high grip tires. If you would like wet performance you need a tread pattern that lends itself to the amount of performance you seek. Noise has other requirements....

and so on.

[jeffmn8]

With street tires, you might even be able to fit 245s up front. I was running rcomps (bfg r1's) so they run slightly larger than normal.

[bubbajan21]

Just a reference, I had very little issues fitting 235/40/17 and 245/40/17 Front/Rear on my car with slightly rolled fenders. I have an mcoupe suspension setup with 17x8.5 et38 rims, 10mm spacers in the front and none in the rear.

Now that would be interesting if I could fit 245/40 17 in the back because in that case I could run the Super Sports! :D That would put me at 245/40 17 in the rear and either 215 or 225/45 17 in the front. Hmmm, that's a bit narrow in the fronts and I don't want to set this thing up to be a drag racer. If they only made the Super Sports in a 235/40 17 I would rock that setup in a second with the 245's out back. Hmmmmmm, I've got some thinking to do. :)

[jeffmn8]

Just a reference, I had very little issues fitting 235/40/17 and 245/40/17 Front/Rear on my car with slightly rolled fenders. I have an mcoupe suspension setup with 17x8.5 et38 rims, 10mm spacers in the front and none in the rear.

[bubbajan21]

R1rs are going to wear pretty fast compared to the bridgestone or dunlop.

I hadn't thought about that, that is very true. Hmmmm, definitely a consideration.

Check these out as well -

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....el=Ventus+R-S3

They don't come in the sizes I'm looking for and they don't seem to rate very well in the wet.

FWIW, Car and Driver just did another performance test of summer performance tires

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

Wonderful link! :up: Oh I would LOVE to get a set of those Michelin Supersports up under my E30, Tire rack rates them as the best tire ever with 9's across the board for everything. Unfortunately I would have to drop down to a 215/45 or maybe even a 205/45 to get them to fit under the E30 which is significantly smaller than I'd like to run. If they come out with these with slightly shorter sidewalls I will absolutely be running these on my E30.

You do not need more than 225 in the rear for 240hp if you are running summer performance tires and I'm not sure why you'd want 235 up front. What is your reasoning for this much tire?

Maximum possible grip for acceleration, turning, and braking plus an aggressive look and stance.