Lightweight e30, have platform/engine ideas, leaning 318is/N52… talk me out of it

[OSAH racing]

Quotes from OP: I can do some of my own mechanical work (have pulled engines/trans and swapped suspensions) but don’t have a ton of time and don’t do well with electronics/computers so in general prefer OEM like kits/simplicity. Willing to spend some money to get there

Was looking to spend 10-15k to get a nice car with clean body and interior (I dislike body/interior work) and then limit a swap to $10k total (parts and labor, labor divided between myself and a shop depending on level of difficulty)

Unless I missed it have you mentioned test driving ? 25K budget. Money gets spent quickly on swaps. You should go drive 3 types of e30's that are most available and make a decision after that. The 318is will highlight handling over power and end the debate over what version of engine is best for canyon carving. Kits are available and K-power will even do your swap. The 325is m20 or an M20 stroker with suspension mods would help you in terms most easy to modify and may be enough for you. S50 swapped e30. more power and a longer engine but again a OEM type kit. If you prefer the 24 valve set up its time to get a shop quote you the N52 cost for the work your not gonna do. what every you do get a build going on the project forums and document it. There is still lots of enthusiasm for the e30.

[TobyB]

the M54 is still rough cast and the parting lines in the exhaust path are galling.

Coming from lots of time spent on M10s, I was also shocked by how rough the M54 headwork is.
It would take a bit of careful testing to avoid making it worse, but there's potential
to clean up flow on both intake and exhaust.

BMW likes incremental improvements, so I can't help thinking they left this in their pocket for later...

t

[hoveringuy]

Coming from lots of time spent on M10s, I was also shocked by how rough the M54 headwork is.
It would take a bit of careful testing to avoid making it worse, but there's potential
to clean up flow on both intake and exhaust.

BMW likes incremental improvements, so I can't help thinking they left this in their pocket for later...

t

Except the exhaust port is also really small and there's not much room for expanding it.

[moatilliatta]

https://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac-motorsports-billet-aluminum-wet-block-bmw-s54-p4808.aspx

Final boss.

[digger]

to me with the budget you're going either want to start with an engine that was already fitted to the chassis or one of the cheaper swaps (well trodden and simple path where you can buy all the bits "off the shelf")

[varg]

RE the torsional rigidity question, still don’t understand how good this makes the E30 look (or how different the M3 is from standard E30).

Bentley Azure - 18,000 Nm/deg
Bugatti EB110 - 19,000 Nm/deg
Bugatti Veyron - 60,000 Nm/deg
Bugatti Veyron Grand Sport - 22,000 Nm/deg
BMW E30 M3 - 23,000 Nm/deg
BMW E36 Touring - 10,900 Nm/deg
BMW E36 Z3 - 5,600 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/o folding seats) - 18,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Sedan (w/folding seats) - 13,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Wagon (w/folding seats) - 14,000 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Coupe (w/folding seats) - 12,500 Nm/deg
BMW E46 Convertible - 10,500 Nm/deg
BMW E53 X5 (2004) - 23,100 Nm/deg
BMW E90 - 22,500 Nm/deg

But are those numbers accurate/reputable? That's the real question. To me the idea that the E30 M3 chassis has better torsional rigidity than an E46 when a regular E30 is well known for being pretty bendy seems suspect. I haven't seen an M3's bare chassis compared to a non-M though so I don't know to what extent they reinforced it with extra features, seam welding, etc.

i can't believe how cheap eveything is in the states. 20k here is kind of a basic paint job with perhaps some minor bodywork. a 15k e30 would need 25k here lol.

One of my least favorite things about this forum software since the update is that it doesn't show people's location anymore until you go to the profile. Sounds like things are rough up there. Down here a good paint job seems to start at $10k USD now, which is why I'm going to learn how to paint and restore my own E30 because my experiences with body work done by others have been bad.

[Maxhouse97]

On the test drives, yes agree … trying to figure out how to do that. Excerpt below from a PM I sent to a local Cincinnati member but haven’t heard back.

So you know, I’m not dead set on a swap, but like the idea. But my main issue is that I have never driven an E30, never mind a swapped car. I would love to drive a stock 318is to see how bad the lack of torque thing is. Couple of questions:

• What’s the best way to drive one locally in your opinion? I typically do this through test drives of used cars for sale.
• I’m active in PCA here, but is there a good local E30 club in the area?
• Do you go to Dayton Cars and Coffee? Me and my buddy (he’s got a E60 M5, I’ve got my E46 M3) regularly attend. I met a guy there with an E30 that did a Ecotec 4 cylinder swap.

[moatilliatta]

BMW E30 M3 - 23,000 Nm/deg
Maybe for like a ate 93 DTM chassis....

Buckeye Bimmers (BMWCCA) is active in your area. Their holiday party maybe coming up.

I'm in Louisville, Ky. Definably lack of E30 action around here.

[E30 Wagen]

As an instructor I've gotten to ride in quite a few E36's and the way they plant the rear still amazes me, like the harder you push them the harder they stick...

I had a scary moment in my e36 where I accidently approached a turn way too fast (public road) and prepared myself for a spectacular r3v, but the darn thing carved through it running the stock 225s and stock sport suspension. Not sure my old e30 on sticky 205s would have held on as well. So yeah, I like e36s a lot; I bet that a n52 swapped one with some added lightness would be pretty amazing. For a while I was searching the entire country for a slicktop e36 and managed to find a few, a couple being four door base 318i's, which is usually the case, gave me ideas to build a street version of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw9aP6egj8o

Another "light" but modern car to consider might be a slicktop 230i manual if you can find one?

[av8drvr]

On the test drives, yes agree … trying to figure out how to do that. Excerpt below from a PM I sent to a local Cincinnati member but haven’t heard back.

So you know, I’m not dead set on a swap, but like the idea. But my main issue is that I have never driven an E30, never mind a swapped car. I would love to drive a stock 318is to see how bad the lack of torque thing is. Couple of questions:

• What’s the best way to drive one locally in your opinion? I typically do this through test drives of used cars for sale.
• I’m active in PCA here, but is there a good local E30 club in the area?
• Do you go to Dayton Cars and Coffee? Me and my buddy (he’s got a E60 M5, I’ve got my E46 M3) regularly attend. I met a guy there with an E30 that did a Ecotec 4 cylinder swap.

I am up in Toledo with a slick-top 318iS mostly stock (M42). Come warmer weather you are welcome to come my way for a drive. Drop me a note if interested.

[moatilliatta]

Another "light" but modern car to consider might be a slicktop 230i manual if you can find one?

Or Z4 3.0 si

hard thing is finding a good manual in one of these…7

[uturn]

But my main issue is that I have never driven an E30, never mind a swapped car.

The Z3 and [e36] 318ti both have the same rear trailing arm setup like the e30. They will give you an idea of how a modified e30 would drive.

The e36 coupes and sedans have the multi-link rear end that hold the road better.

[Maxhouse97]

Thanks for the invite Av8drvr

[Maxhouse97]

Checking back in here - as I’ve done more research on the N52 swap, I’m come to realize that it’s quite the endeavor. The amazing work that folks like Hoveringuy and Stryker have done notwithstanding (like finding out that Z4 engine mounts fit perfectly), it still takes a lot of custom work. I’m trying to assess the level of difficulty vs M5x swap, but it seems the M5x is more bolt in. To me this not only increases the up front cost/effort, but I would think the ownership experience is more burdensome as well as the car ages and things break/need replacing (harder to find a spare fuel filter that you had to bend/fabricate).

Now I expect that will get better as more people do the swap and the aftermarket picks up, but this will take time (vs S52 which has been done upteen times). 22RPD seems like a candidate for a shop that will pick up some of this. How about Gargastic or Condor speed shop? I have read some negative reviews on 22RPD, not sure if that’s something to worry about.

N52 still intrigues me though due to its weight and power. And most of my desire to go with this platform would be to have a bit of a custom car (if I’ve wanted stock/turn key I would just pony up due an M3). The velocity stack kit that 22RPD is working on will supposedly save an additional 15-20lbs, which would put you within 10-15 of an M42/K and give you an amazing sound. The K though is enticing if I could get over the heritage piece. But I don’t think they sound that great.

More crockpotting to be done!

[Maxhouse97]

Whoa just got done posting the above and saw this impressive K swap video, posted only 2 months ago. Anyone know this guy?

https://youtu.be/qGRM8KIKd8o?si=HVudDNXDkBS9LU6M