Anyone w/ experience with "Brake Performance"

[kuzimmer]

I don't have any E30 rotors laying around, but I do happen to have a stock style Corrado rotor (yeah, kinda weird) and it measures 5.25mm (.206") thick on the wheel surface of the hat. I can't get my caliper in to measure at the "window" area, but it looks to be the same thickness.

That makes sense that the RB rotor and an OEM style Corrado rotor would be similar. Its probably the fact that the RB face is painted black that makes it appear thinner. Black is slimming you know...

[Massive Lee]

The Corrado rotor is used as an upgrade on many raced Golf and Jettas. So, it is not necessarely the Corrado design that is the problem, but the casting by a given company.

Lee

[Brian D]

I do have one question. I no longer have any stock E30 rotors lying around, but the hat on the RB rotor seems kinda thin. I'll measure the thickness for the RB hat but does anybody have the thickness measurement for a stock E30 rotor hat?

Kurt

I don't have any E30 rotors laying around, but I do happen to have a stock style Corrado rotor (yeah, kinda weird) and it measures 5.25mm (.206") thick on the wheel surface of the hat. I can't get my caliper in to measure at the "window" area, but it looks to be the same thickness.

[kuzimmer]

The RB hat material thickness measures 5.5mm

Kurt

[Brian D]

It appears that FM and Goodwin are using the RB 2 piece rotors, probably made custom to fit a Miata.

http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda...-Packages.html

http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid=4539&parentid=0&stocknumber=14-16205%20%201990-93

Not as helpful as I had hoped.

[kuzimmer]

Again, sorry to hear of your problems Kurt, and I'm glad you and your car are OK.

Thanks Brian,

When you look at the RB rotor, it does look like the perfect solution for an E30, it even works with my Bimmerworld ducting (with just a tiny bit of bending to keep the backing plate from touching the rotor.)

I can't see how you or anyone else would have anticipated this failure.

I do have one question. I no longer have any stock E30 rotors lying around, but the hat on the RB rotor seems kinda thin. I'll measure the thickness for the RB hat but does anybody have the thickness measurement for a stock E30 rotor hat?

Kurt

[Brian D]

Oh, and one other thing-thanks for bringing this to the attention of the board, both of you guys. It would have been easy to sweep this under the rug. Gives me a good feeling for using Lee's products, knowing that he backs them.

[Brian D]

I don't see how brake fade would precede a rotor failure like this.

Kurt (and Lee), sorry for the failure you had. I believe I was the first to point these rotors out to Lee. I ran across them as a result of Chris' (CBi) post HERE. The pictures aren't there anymore, but post #5 was when he discovered the RB rotors. What worried some people about the stock style Corrado rotors was the possibility of breaks occurring from the windows in the hat, shown HERE. The RB rotors seemed to be the answer to that question.

I'm not sure how long CBi ran the one piece rotors, but I know he used them on track a couple times (RX7 calipers). He then switched to their 2 piece rotors, and was very impressed with them. The problem with the 2 piece RB rotors is the price, they are pretty expensive and take away from the point of Lee's "entry level" kit.

So, this is distressing to hear that the rotors have failed, in a rather catastrophic way. I'm not completely convinced the stock G60 rotors are "failure prone", but there is one person that has had issues with them, link HERE, post #2.

Flying Miata uses the RB 2 piece rotor in some of their big brake kits, and I think Goodwin and 949 racing are using variations of Corrado rotors in their kits. I'll do some looking online, but it may be worth a call to any of these 3 companies to do some investigating.

Again, sorry to hear of your problems Kurt, and I'm glad you and your car are OK.

[kuzimmer]

(fade should have been so bad prior to failure to act as a stern warning sign, correct?)

Incorrect. I was using Raybestos ST43 pads which start fading at around 1300 degrees. I never had any fade. Everything worked great right up until I had the tell tale vibration.

Kurt

[Massive Lee]

BTW add Massive as a supplier that will support and warranty its products under racing condition. Afterall, they are purposely built for that. ;)

RB has behaved properly by sending replacements, but their rotors are simply not at par with what others produce.

[quickervicar]

My point with RB's rep was very clear. How come some tiny stock Brembo, Zimmerman, ATE, Balo e30 rotors can be raced all day long with no stress problem, while a bigger RB disc fails in such a short time? The problem is obviously not with the duty, but with the quality of the casting.

Sorry, Lee. Your reply beat my posting. I agree with you totally. If touted as race-duty or an upgrade, then it should perform as such.

[quickervicar]

I'm referring to companies like Hitco, Arrow, Pankl, Callies, Willans, etc. that do nothing but custom racing components. If you are paying for their design/application knowledge & quality materials/workmanship then you can expect it to hold up under those intended conditions. I'm not saying that they can't wear out or break--they are stressed parts--but I am saying that if there is a defect in materials or workmanship then you have recourse. You don't think that Mahle stood behind their defective pistons in the Mercedes-Ilmor F1 engines 3 years ago?

Having said that, I feel for Lee. And for RB. Plenty of evidence of E30s doing track days without problem, yet they are still a street-based brake package. I think that they are performing beyond the scope of initial design application, yet any rotor that blows apart usually points to a manufacturing issue. (fade should have been so bad prior to failure to act as a stern warning sign, correct?)

[Massive Lee]

Actually, in this case, the warranty is not the problem (RB has been great at replacing the two rotors even though their website highlights that there's no warranty on parts used on tracks). The problem is the quality of the RB rotor that is not at par with what, as BMW drivers, we are used to. When we purchase our rotors, we usually get better German or Belgian grade steel, which is not the case with recycled junk from an Asian supplier.

My point with RB's rep was very clear. How come some tiny stock Brembo, Zimmerman, ATE, Balo e30 rotors can be raced all day long with no stress problem, while a bigger RB disc fails in such a short time? The problem is obviously not with the duty, but with the quality of the casting.

So, my recommendation is still the same. RB discs are great for medium duty, but the usual suspects should be used for heavier duty (ATE, Brembo, Zimmerman, Balo).

Now back to www.BrakePerformance.com
I called them yesterday and asked specifically about where the rotors were made/cast. Their website claims "made in the USA". Their rep was kind enough to spend some time on the phone, but could only say that the rotors are purchased from a California-based supplier and machined in the US to their on specifications. So, it doesn't mean the rotors are necessarely cast on our shores, and that it is possible they also come from Asia and are cheap castings.

So back to ATE, Brembo and alikes... This stresses that whatever the components we buy (and that includes control arms and rotors) we should be very carefull where we buy from. No way I would put an eBay comtrol arm on my car...

[dinanm3atl]

Then I would find another supplier. There are many manufacturers that offer nothing but racing-duty components. They offer warranties.

Links?

I don't believe I have ever seen this. If you are racing you are abusing. How can they warranty that?

[quickervicar]

I don't believe so. Even 'race' parts normally say somwhere that there is no warranty if used in a racing environment/tracking/etc.

Then I would find another supplier. There are many manufacturers that offer nothing but racing-duty components. They offer warranties.