Help shut up a friend

[livetheride]

I have no particular loyalty to cars from wherever (I own 2 Japanese cars, a German car, a British car, and have also owned American, Italian, and Korean cars previously).

That said, your statement quoted above is more or less true, at least if you're talking performance. I have a $28k Subaru with all of the creature comforts I want (sunroof, heated seats/mirrors, wiper de-icers, auto climate control, etc etc etc). It also has AWD and just a bit under 300hp stock, and can run the 1/4 mile stock in about 13 seconds flat.

Find me a German (or other Euro car sold in the US) anywhere near that price that can match that performance. I doubt you can. It's ok though. Euro cars tend to have nicer interiors, quieter inside, and lots of electronic gizmos. I don't particularly care about those things, so wouldn't drop an extra $20k on a BMW that has comparable performance to my Subaru. Other people want that stuff, so they would. Or they'd buy a 328i and go slower, but with more comfort. Whatever floats your boat. I have pretty much no interest in anything BMW makes currently for under $50k, personally. Yeah, I'd love an M3 or M5. But that cost isn't in the cards.

Rewind to the '80s and this was less the case. Back then Europe sent over cars with good performance that were affordable, more or less. Japanese cars in the 80s were generally not good in performance or fit and finish, but were economical. I'll take an '80s BMW over anything from Asia in the '80s (a couple of which I've owned).

cliffs: Tell your friend that it's a stupid conversation, and it is all a matter of opinion, and there is no way to "prove" any of that. People buy what they like, what they can afford, or what suits their purposes. You want a RWD roadster under $30k? Not gonna be a Euro, go get a Miata. You want a RWD luxo-sedan with 500hp? Get a BMW or a Lexus. Want a FWD econocar that gets 40mpg? Not many Euros like that in this country. Want a 4x4 that can actually off-road and not break down? Get a 4Runner or a (gag) Jeep. Don't get a stupid X5 or Range Rover. Want a car that impresses the girls at your law firm? Get a BMW or a Benz. whatever....

I personally dislike most new euro cars (unfortunately especially BMW except for M's) so this conversation is mostly about older cars I guess.

Tell him to put his money where his mouth is and take it to the street.

It's also totally untrue that the German's stole from the Japanese.. For obvious instance look at the Datsun 510. Datsun literally based that car off of BMW's design. I in fact know the entire history of the Japanese automobile industry, the Japanese tried very hard to copy everything the Europeans did and in fact for some time before WWII they made contracts with European car companies to share technologies and work together, when really they just wanted to learn more about the European cars.

All that said there are some absolutely amazing Japanese automobiles and it is probably easier to get more power for cheaper from the average modern Japanese car then European. However everyone rattles down the road in a Honda, how many people cruise in a sleek E30?

All about class, taste, beautiful cars and beautiful women.

Yeah, he claims the exact opposite... i'll use this

lol....wouldn't it depend what his buddy drives?

Right now a Ranger, Explorer (just blew up), and a old wrangler. However, in Japan he owned/built: an rx7 (which is now at his old shop) ~1200hp, an AE86 ~600hp, skyline ~500hp, and an s13 (i think) with unknown hp...I have seen dyno sheets, so he's not bluffing.

[Wishno87]

How old is your friend? Sounds like a very immature conversation. Like an argument I would have with a middle school kid.

[irish44j]

one more...for context

I was in Berlin and Munich for 10 days last April. Me being a car guy, I asked my German counterpart (white-collar guy probably making $100k+) what he drives. He wears nice Italian suits and has a nice house, so I expected him to say "5-series" or something.

Nope. He said "We have a Ford Mondeo Wagon and a Honda Accord (Acura TSX here)." He expressed little interest in owning a German car, said they are "a waste of money."

Grass is always greener.....

[irish44j]

Tell him to put his money where his mouth is and take it to the street.
.

lol....wouldn't it depend what his buddy drives?

[irish44j]

Japanese cars - engineered to run forever

German cars - engineered to be driven

.

meh, I spent a week driving my brother's e46 330 sedan (non-zhp). My WRX is far more of a "driver's car" than the 330 is, hands down. The 330 does have a great freakin' interior though.

Generalizing about nationality of cars is pointless.

My wife had a 2001 Jetta at one point and it wasn't "engineered to be driven," it was "engineered to be at the dealer every month getting something fixed." What a POS that was....Her Mazda3 after it was more fun to drive, handled better, and never had a single problem in 4 years....

[Threehz]

Tell him to put his money where his mouth is and take it to the street.

It's also totally untrue that the German's stole from the Japanese.. For obvious instance look at the Datsun 510. Datsun literally based that car off of BMW's design. I in fact know the entire history of the Japanese automobile industry, the Japanese tried very hard to copy everything the Europeans did and in fact for some time before WWII they made contracts with European car companies to share technologies and work together, when really they just wanted to learn more about the European cars.

All that said there are some absolutely amazing Japanese automobiles and it is probably easier to get more power for cheaper from the average modern Japanese car then European. However everyone rattles down the road in a Honda, how many people cruise in a sleek E30?

All about class, taste, beautiful cars and beautiful women.

[irish44j]

how all euros ... can't compete with Jap cars for anywhere near the same cost.

I have no particular loyalty to cars from wherever (I own 2 Japanese cars, a German car, a British car, and have also owned American, Italian, and Korean cars previously).

That said, your statement quoted above is more or less true, at least if you're talking performance. I have a $28k Subaru with all of the creature comforts I want (sunroof, heated seats/mirrors, wiper de-icers, auto climate control, etc etc etc). It also has AWD and just a bit under 300hp stock, and can run the 1/4 mile stock in about 13 seconds flat.

Find me a German (or other Euro car sold in the US) anywhere near that price that can match that performance. I doubt you can. It's ok though. Euro cars tend to have nicer interiors, quieter inside, and lots of electronic gizmos. I don't particularly care about those things, so wouldn't drop an extra $20k on a BMW that has comparable performance to my Subaru. Other people want that stuff, so they would. Or they'd buy a 328i and go slower, but with more comfort. Whatever floats your boat. I have pretty much no interest in anything BMW makes currently for under $50k, personally. Yeah, I'd love an M3 or M5. But that cost isn't in the cards.

Rewind to the '80s and this was less the case. Back then Europe sent over cars with good performance that were affordable, more or less. Japanese cars in the 80s were generally not good in performance or fit and finish, but were economical. I'll take an '80s BMW over anything from Asia in the '80s (a couple of which I've owned).

The Japanese (and Koreans) are smart, though, and have caught up to the Europaean marques in quality, fit and finish (Lexus can match up with any Euros in that category), and performance/halo cars (new NSX, IS-F, GT-R anyone?).

Europe is saddled with high labor costs (and other factors) that make the cars cost more. It is what it is......

Europe has its share of awesome and terrible cars, as do America, Japan, and Korea. You can't just say "Jap cars are rice burners" or "European cars are for f*gs" or "American cars are junk."

Besides, automotive companies are global now anyhow. Some of Ford and GM's best cars are designed and built in Europe. Some of Europe's best cars are built in the US. Some of Europe's top-sellers in the US (JETTA), were built in Mexico. Aren't several BMW models built in the US?


cliffs: Tell your friend that it's a stupid conversation, and it is all a matter of opinion, and there is no way to "prove" any of that. People buy what they like, what they can afford, or what suits their purposes. You want a RWD roadster under $30k? Not gonna be a Euro, go get a Miata. You want a RWD luxo-sedan with 500hp? Get a BMW or a Lexus. Want a FWD econocar that gets 40mpg? Not many Euros like that in this country. Want a 4x4 that can actually off-road and not break down? Get a 4Runner or a (gag) Jeep. Don't get a stupid X5 or Range Rover. Want a car that impresses the girls at your law firm? Get a BMW or a Benz. whatever....

[VinniE30]

Not sure why but it seems all the countries that lost WW2 make the best cars.
Awesome cars: Germany, Italy, Japan
Crap cars: USA, UK, France, Russia, China

[AsharC]

just play "Bimmer, Benz & Bently" for him and explain how it does not say Toyota,Nissan, Honda...LOL
And if that does not shut him up, just raise the volume!!!

x2!

[jizo]

just play "Bimmer, Benz & Bently" for him and explain how it does not say Toyota,Nissan, Honda...LOL
And if that does not shut him up, just raise the volume!!!

[Exodus_2pt0]

Japanese cars - engineered to run forever

German cars - engineered to be driven

My last 2 vehicles have been German, I won't go back.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Accords with the Hoff kink, debate closed.

[Holland]

Lol, it's usually the Germans that come up with things first. Then the Japanese take, copy, simplify, and refine them.

[livetheride]

So, my friend lived in Japan for a while is completely annoying about his Jap cars and how all euros are "fag-mobiles" and aren't worth putting any money into and can't compete with Jap cars for anywhere near the same cost. I get that they're made good cars and I love a few, but I want to really get him and prove euros are not as shitty chick cars as he thinks.

A big problem is that the German unions do seem to restrict quality/precision with some things, is this actually true with engines too? He also seems to think that the Germans stole everything from the Japanese.

I just want to shut him up. Help me guys! Arm me with some good stuff!