Honda K24 swap interest?

[Jaker]

All the Dohc petrol engines and transmissions share tilt angel from m42/44 to m50/s54

So if the smoke hasn't got to me too bad, the E30 I6 cars (SOHC?) will have the different lean then?

[Wanganstyle]

Honda K24 swap interest?

So if the smoke hasn't got to me too bad, the E30 I6 cars (SOHC?) will have the different lean then?

Yes; when I did my e30 m20 327s hardy and beck engine swap + 6 speed I found a euro 2005/6 320D gearbox because the diesel tilt matched the sohc m20 engine.

I could have used a Usa 6 speed but all the ones I could think of are from a dohc engine and do have a different tilt (referential point is the Uuc dssr for cheap bastard e30 24v swaps with g260).

With the dohc tilt on a sohc engine the shift linkage would have had to be twisted and trans carrier also

With the 320d trans + sohc m20 engine the tilt was matching and no weird twisty shifter or trans mount was needed. If I had used a g420 from e46m + my sohc m20 it would have needed to be twisty

[Motheye99]

Is the f20c a direct drop In for the e30? No need for headers or intake? If so then the eBay prices for the 2 motors would be pretty close. (Fully dressed f20c is 2.5-3, And k24 with Civic dressing 750$). I'm sure you could find cheaper egines if you shopped around. Don't quote me on this but I believe Kmiata claimed there k24 made 220hp with there headers and intake. The price for these 2 items was around 1500$ combined when I looked at his website a while ago. A stock f20c makes 237bhp so it does win there. I'm sure you could make more power building a k24 with a budget of 3k, including headers, intake. All the fourms I've read about budget K builds recommend first swapping the stocks intake& exhaust to begin with.

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[E30SPDFRK]

What I prefer about the k series over the f20 is the N/A gains that can be had with aftermarket parts. The f20's are pretty maxed out from the factory; I haven't researched it in a while but from what I remember, people could barely break 240whp with intake, headers, and cams. I've seen plenty of 300whp k20's with the same mods, and you can get even more with the k24's. The i-VTEC is a much more capable system than the regular VTEC, and the k series heads flow amazing.

If you plan on turbo however, both can handle crazy power out of the box, and it might be easier to start with an F20.

[Motheye99]

This is the reason I want a Honda K all motor. 285 hp 9k rpm, all motor hillcilmb Civic. This motor sounds a awful lot like a dtm spec s14 but is definitely cheaper.

https://youtu.be/45egR1LLJsE

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[E's-30]

This is the reason I want a Honda K all motor. 285 hp 9k rpm, all motor hillcilmb Civic. This motor sounds a awful lot like a dtm spec s14 but is definitely cheaper.

https://youtu.be/45egR1LLJsE

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It just sounds so damn good.


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[Motheye99]

Kmiata, I know you said you dont like to do small updates. But is there any progress on your swap?

[Wanganstyle]

Honda K24 swap interest?

Is the f20c a direct drop In for the e30? No need for headers or intake? If so then the eBay prices for the 2 motors would be pretty close. (Fully dressed f20c is 2.5-3, And k24 with Civic dressing 750$). I'm sure you could find cheaper egines if you shopped around. Don't quote me on this but I believe Kmiata claimed there k24 made 220hp with there headers and intake. The price for these 2 items was around 1500$ combined when I looked at his website a while ago. A stock f20c makes 237bhp so it does win there. I'm sure you could make more power building a k24 with a budget of 3k, including headers, intake. All the fourms I've read about budget K builds recommend first swapping the stocks intake& exhaust to begin with.

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Basically the people who make the kits want to be paid; they would rather you buy a k series and all their parts instead of a f20 and not all their parts to adapt.

On a realistic budget a k series making anything more than 210-220rwhp will cost more than s52 or s54 money.

S54 makes 260-270rwhp in a factory e46m; with a flash tune and catless headers it’s 310rwhp or so untouched.

BMW double vanos lunches the k series I vtec.
BMW makes extremely good engines; the cost of a s54 swap is less money than buying a k stock engine and the k miata parts.



F20c out of the box with its beautiful 6 speed is more ideal for about 90-95% of folk even considering a Honda powerplant swap in a Bmw; a stock s2000 f20c will outpull a e36m with s52 with similar prep on the circuit

F20c with stock airbox stock exhaust stock ecu no cat is faster down the straights than s52 with no cat, aftermarket exhaust and flash tune.

Basic problems with the k that lead to spending too much money on adaptation parts; it faces the wrong way. To make it rwd you have to pay someone for all the parts to make t rwd ok; an f20c and a s54 are both natively non trans gendering items in a rwd application and they both don’t require bellhousing or clutch flywheel adaptation to bolt to the native transmission.

[Motheye99]

Basically the people who make the kits want to be paid; they would rather you buy a k series and all their parts instead of a f20 and not all their parts to adapt.

On a realistic budget a k series making anything more than 210-220rwhp will cost more than s52 or s54 money.

S54 makes 260-270rwhp in a factory e46m; with a flash tune and catless headers it’s 310rwhp or so untouched.

BMW double vanos lunches the k series I vtec.
BMW makes extremely good engines; the cost of a s54 swap is less money than buying a k stock engine and the k miata parts.



F20c out of the box with its beautiful 6 speed is more ideal for about 90-95% of folk even considering a Honda powerplant swap in a Bmw; a stock s2000 f20c will outpull a e36m with s52 with similar prep on the circuit

F20c with stock airbox stock exhaust stock ecu no cat is faster down the straights than s52 with no cat, aftermarket exhaust and flash tune.

Basic problems with the k that lead to spending too much money on adaptation parts; it faces the wrong way. To make it rwd you have to pay someone for all the parts to make t rwd ok; an f20c and a s54 are both natively non trans gendering items in a rwd application and they both don’t require bellhousing or clutch flywheel adaptation to bolt to the native transmission.

Since writing that I've done alot of research into motor swaps and have since adjusted my view slightly. I'm starting to think the s54 is the way to go. However the one thing you leave out is weight. I don't know if you've ever drivien a 4cyilnder e30 but having a near 50/50 distribution is definitely worth it. If it wasn't why would people be spending 10k on metric mechanic m42's that make 200hp?

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[Wanganstyle]

Honda K24 swap interest?

Since writing that I've done alot of research into motor swaps and have since adjusted my view slightly. I'm starting to think the s54 is the way to go. However the one thing you leave out is weight. I don't know if you've ever drivien a 4cyilnder e30 but having a near 50/50 distribution is definitely worth it. If it wasn't why would people be spending 10k on metric mechanic m42's that make 200hp?

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I have a front mid engine s2000
Also have a caged m54b28 aluminum block swapped e30 (aluminum twincam is same weight as original sohc m20)

Also have had a s54 swapped 36m sedan


The s54 increase in weight over the stock s52 and additional increase in weight over the m20 can be offset by going to a 210mm m5 diff (23lbs, relatively bolt in and much stronger to match the s54)
A zf 5 speed can be used for less front weight also, and just install a 24gal fuel cell + full tank of gas to balance out the s54. It will handle just as good as a 4 banger but have quite a lot more power.

Not many metric m42 folk actually dyno; they seem to talk a lot more then they walk.

If one desired a 260rwhp m42 rebello racing can build it and dyno tune it in house locally in the Bay Area.

S54 will still outrun any m42 without a turbocharger


Regardless; try lining up a s54 with any k or f powered naturally aspirated Honda engine and the s54 will just walk away.

A heavily boosted built money money money spec k series Honda motor would be a different story but the s54 takes boost better stock than any Honda street motor stock besides the brand new ctr Oem turbo

The new 2018 type r civic Oem K20 turbo is the most ridiculous new engine out there; a mild remap and boost up is easy 400fwhp ++

[Motheye99]

If I wanted to go fast in a straight line I'd build a turbo M50 car, or just buy a American v8 car and boost it. But I seriously think e30's aren't about quarter mile times. How these cars perform in canyon's is why I like them. I cant wait for the turbo Honda's to be in the cheapish motor donors from the junkyard. The stock m42 is light and is offers alot of benefits for canyon driving. I'm probably just a 318is fanboy but it really is a good driver.

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[Sladek]

i think if you put an s54 e30 up against a franken k swapped (k24 block, k20 head) around a track i think youd come away liking the k swapped setup much more

saying the k series doesnt take boost as well as the s54 isnt true either. you can boost the hell out of a stock k series.

plus considering maintenance costs of s54 vs a honda engine id much rather beat on a honda than an s54

[Wanganstyle]

Honda K24 swap interest?

i think if you put an s54 e30 up against a franken k swapped (k24 block, k20 head) around a track i think youd come away liking the k swapped setup much more

saying the k series doesnt take boost as well as the s54 isnt true either. you can boost the hell out of a stock k series.

plus considering maintenance costs of s54 vs a honda engine id much rather beat on a honda than an s54

S54 can 1krwhp stock with boost.

K24/20 cannot 1krwhp with boost stock.

Which is stronger?




There is no reason an inline 6 bmw cannot handle good. They come from the factory inline 6; with proper money and effort the weight balance will stay the same.

Bmw kills it in road racing; go to the track and watch the e36/46m outrun Honda powered mid engine Honda’s.

I have a front mid engine Honda; also have a swapped e30; track both- do you have any real comparison like this?

S54 doesn’t need any fuckery to make power; a k24/20 does and is not nearly as reliable as a factory bmw s54; no Frankenstein is.

You boost a k and the weight argument is moot; a compressor + charge piping + additional cooling to a k series and you will have s54 cost and weight.

[Motheye99]

S54 can 1krwhp stock with boost.

K24/20 cannot 1krwhp with boost stock.

Which is stronger?




There is no reason an inline 6 bmw cannot handle good. They come from the factory inline 6; with proper money and effort the weight balance will stay the same.

Bmw kills it in road racing; go to the track and watch the e36/46m outrun Honda powered mid engine Honda’s.

I have a front mid engine Honda; also have a swapped e30; track both- do you have any real comparison like this?

S54 doesn’t need any fuckery to make power; a k24/20 does and is not nearly as reliable as a factory bmw s54; no Frankenstein is.

You boost a k and the weight argument is moot; a compressor + charge piping + additional cooling to a k series and you will have s54 cost and weight.

Wouldn't a s54 boosted way even more than a Honda? Let's look at the other end of the spectrum which motor cost more to build to handle say 700whp? Definitely the s54. I've seen k20's make 700 with decomp's, cams, and oil upgrades. modifications which are each individually cheaper then there s54 version ie cams, Pistons, valves. Not just because there less of them in the motor but because there more common in the world. Alot more Honda's are being built compared to the s54. I'm not trying to argue against the s54's performance, but I still think the K and 4cylinder motors in general Still have a place in the E30. Can the modern BMW turbo 4 out of a 320i be bought for cheap? Hopefully one day.


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[Wanganstyle]

Honda K24 swap interest?

Wouldn't a s54 boosted way even more than a Honda? Let's look at the other end of the spectrum which motor cost more to build to handle say 700whp? Definitely the s54. I've seen k20's make 700 with decomp's, cams, and oil upgrades. modifications which are each individually cheaper then there s54 version ie cams, Pistons, valves. Not just because there less of them in the motor but because there more common in the world. Alot more Honda's are being built compared to the s54. I'm not trying to argue against the s54's performance, but I still think the K and 4cylinder motors in general Still have a place in the E30. Can the modern BMW turbo 4 out of a 320i be bought for cheap? Hopefully one day.


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Modern 320i engine now you are talking a good swap.

The s54 can take 2 or 1 turboski and do 700rwhp reliably with all Oem parts. Bmw Oem rods pistons untouched head
You obviously have to service it.

S54 doesn’t need to be built to handle 700rwhp at all; it just needs to be tuned and setup well

The k cannot do 700fwhp or rwhp reliably with Oem Honda pistons rods head gasket. You’d have to build the head also to have similar response as the cnc porter factory bmw s54 head. This costs money effort etc; it can also die and need replacement; k24/20’s in na form
Make great power but it doesn’t last as long or make as good of na power as a bone stock s54.

Even a K20r factory placed in fwd can die in stock form; friend spun a bearing at laguna. Car had gone 2 seasons reliably prior with b18c5. Prepped by one of the best local Honda shops in norcal.

The f20c can take about 500rwhp reliably supercharged in stock form with factory Honda rods pistons head gasket. Out of the box the f20c will be stronger for boost than any k motor out of the box.

Boosting a f20c property costs more than a s54 swap to an e30

If a s54 would bolt into my s2000 like it would into a e30 I’d be doing a s54 swap.