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Honda K24 swap interest?

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    Honda K24 swap interest?

    Originally posted by wworm View Post
    Well that's good to know. All you need now is some way to do a CA compliant rwd intake and header. According to speed academy on youtoob s2k headers *sort of* work, might be able to fudge that enough to pass BAR...


    I have a s2k.... manifolds are too different compared to the k stuff to get by bar. Needs to be Oem k series to get by the bar legit
    OBD1 M54/M52TU swap as a M50b25

    Z4 non powered steering rack fits e30



    Euro e46 2005/6 320d 6mt gearbox into E30 with M20 hardy and beck 1985 327s engine

    Comment


      Originally posted by Wanganstyle View Post
      I have a s2k.... manifolds are too different compared to the k stuff to get by bar. Needs to be Oem k series to get by the bar legit
      right, or get an EO for whatever part is developed for the kit, and you're probably looking at having to sell 20 kits to recoup the cost of each part... if kmiata decided that wasn't a viable path forward, i would be not at all surprised

      also, if i remember correctly, the ref is supposed to care about the transmission, gear ratios, and final drive, also all matching the donor car. if that's the case, a K24 in an E30 "should" never pass the ref, per the rules, because that powertrain was never delivered in that configuration
      past:
      1989 325is (learner shitbox)
      1986 325e (turbo dorito)
      1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
      current:
      1985 323i baur (project to resume soon...)
      2013 ninja 300 (way more fun than a car)

      Comment


        BMW should have enough final drive selection to make the gear ratios match.

        Comment


          I'll be running the stock G260 5 speed in my swap, with a 3.73 limited slip final drive. The gear ratios are very close to the e30 M3's. I know the engines make power at different rpm's, have different wheel/tire sizes, etc, but it'll be a baseline, I guess. Using KMiata's gearing calculator, I'm happy with the 2977rpm at 70mph.
          Looking forward to E30SPDFRK's progress ahead of KMiata's release of oil pan and engine mounts. I don't have those tools or know-how, so I'm playing the waiting game.

          Comment


            Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
            BMW should have enough final drive selection to make the gear ratios match.
            you might be able to get close enough, but that doesn't solve for that honda never paired a K-series engine with an F-series transmission off the dealer lot

            that's what the ref is going to point out
            past:
            1989 325is (learner shitbox)
            1986 325e (turbo dorito)
            1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
            current:
            1985 323i baur (project to resume soon...)
            2013 ninja 300 (way more fun than a car)

            Comment


              Honda K24 swap interest?

              Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
              BMW should have enough final drive selection to make the gear ratios match.


              This is if you can gear the transmission to
              Match

              No bmw gearbox has a spread like a Honda k series; both 5/6 speeds share gears and final drive

              For example; dc5 rsx base model k20 5 speed; has a double overdrive 4th .921 5th .738; final drive 4.3

              Chart from hybrid racing


              Will need to do adapt for tire size difference also of the original k series;
              Last edited by Wanganstyle; 07-27-2019, 11:59 AM.
              OBD1 M54/M52TU swap as a M50b25

              Z4 non powered steering rack fits e30



              Euro e46 2005/6 320d 6mt gearbox into E30 with M20 hardy and beck 1985 327s engine

              Comment


                Originally posted by Wanganstyle View Post
                This is if you can gear the transmission to
                Match

                No bmw gearbox has a spread like a Honda k series; both 5/6 speeds share gears and final drive

                For example; dc5 rsx base model k20 5 speed; has a double overdrive 4th .921 5th .738; final drive 4.3

                Chart from hybrid racing


                Will need to do adapt for tire size difference also of the original k series;
                I thought you knew how to calculate ratios...

                3.266/0.738 = 4.43 (Every gearbox in your chart)
                4.20/0.81 = 5.19 (420G; BMW already ahead with a wider ratio spread)

                3.266*4.389 = 14.33
                4.20*3.45 = 14.49

                0.738*4.389 = 3.24
                0.81*3.91 = 3.17

                So something geared like a 420G (which is basically every BMW transmission) with a FD in the range of 3.45 to 3.91 should be great.
                The GS6-53BZ even has a 4.02 first, which would be closer to the Honda ratio with a 3.91 final.

                Anyway, BMW make (has made) a 188mm ratio every 5% from 2.35 to 4.11, so stuff is out there.

                I'd be surprised if the BAR rep was trying to make sure the ratios matched. Last I heard from people in the Fiero community, a swapped car just had to have the same type of transmission (auto or manual) as the donor.

                Maybe I wouldn't even be surprised... CA blew through the Poe Limit a long time ago, so now it's impossible to tell whether a given stupid policy is real or someone's parody of how stupid the actual policy is.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
                  I thought you knew how to calculate ratios...

                  3.266/0.738 = 4.43 (Every gearbox in your chart)
                  4.20/0.81 = 5.19 (420G; BMW already ahead with a wider ratio spread)

                  3.266*4.389 = 14.33
                  4.20*3.45 = 14.49

                  0.738*4.389 = 3.24
                  0.81*3.91 = 3.17

                  So something geared like a 420G (which is basically every BMW transmission) with a FD in the range of 3.45 to 3.91 should be great.
                  The GS6-53BZ even has a 4.02 first, which would be closer to the Honda ratio with a 3.91 final.

                  Anyway, BMW make (has made) a 188mm ratio every 5% from 2.35 to 4.11, so stuff is out there.

                  I'd be surprised if the BAR rep was trying to make sure the ratios matched. Last I heard from people in the Fiero community, a swapped car just had to have the same type of transmission (auto or manual) as the donor.

                  Maybe I wouldn't even be surprised... CA blew through the Poe Limit a long time ago, so now it's impossible to tell whether a given stupid policy is real or someone's parody of how stupid the actual policy is.


                  To pass the smog dyno; with tiny e30
                  Size tires requires matching the overall.

                  Did you consider tire diameter?
                  OBD1 M54/M52TU swap as a M50b25

                  Z4 non powered steering rack fits e30



                  Euro e46 2005/6 320d 6mt gearbox into E30 with M20 hardy and beck 1985 327s engine

                  Comment


                    I did, in fact, but like I said:

                    Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
                    BMW make (has made) a 188mm ratio every 5% from 2.35 to 4.11, so stuff is out there.
                    Also doubtful that BAR refs are looking at ratios at all... unless someone here has actually had that experience.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
                      I did, in fact, but like I said:



                      Also doubtful that BAR refs are looking at ratios at all... unless someone here has actually had that experience.


                      Iíve actually failed smog here in California with a stock e36 automatic post final drive change; so yes it does matter
                      OBD1 M54/M52TU swap as a M50b25

                      Z4 non powered steering rack fits e30



                      Euro e46 2005/6 320d 6mt gearbox into E30 with M20 hardy and beck 1985 327s engine

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Wanganstyle View Post
                        Iíve actually failed smog here in California with a stock e36 automatic post final drive change; so yes it does matter
                        i've gotten a "warning but pass" about final drive from a smog tech who was cool enough to ignore my ITB setup (or didn't recognize it for what it was), but you have to find "that guy".

                        wangan is right, and you don't even have to go to the ref to get that failure; the regular smog dyno machine you need to sit on every 2 years knows what your speed:RPM should be during the test.
                        past:
                        1989 325is (learner shitbox)
                        1986 325e (turbo dorito)
                        1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
                        current:
                        1985 323i baur (project to resume soon...)
                        2013 ninja 300 (way more fun than a car)

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Wanganstyle View Post
                          I’ve actually failed smog here in California with a stock e36 automatic post final drive change; so yes it does matter
                          Was that a sniffer test on a dyno? If the engine speed is much higher than the factory wanted, that may push more exhaust than the checker wants. It's also likely that tweaking the shift points could tune around that, since the car is an automatic.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by The Dark Side of Will View Post
                            Was that a sniffer test on a dyno? If the engine speed is much higher than the factory wanted, that may push more exhaust than the checker wants. It's also likely that tweaking the shift points could tune around that, since the car is an automatic.
                            twas a long time ago / many cars ago circa 2012; transmission software also has to be smog/bar ok to pass iirc- calfornia smog nazi's ftw :(

                            With a manual car the smog tech /bar tech will just pick whatever gear they wanna pick so you kinda need the matching ratios to the ECU/engine/etc
                            OBD1 M54/M52TU swap as a M50b25

                            Z4 non powered steering rack fits e30



                            Euro e46 2005/6 320d 6mt gearbox into E30 with M20 hardy and beck 1985 327s engine

                            Comment


                              Thank you guys this morning for helping me remember I am thankful to live in Texas. Phew. It isn't perfect, and CA is beautiful, but.... What a hassle.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Bill Brown View Post
                                Thank you guys this morning for helping me remember I am thankful to live in Texas. Phew. It isn't perfect, and CA is beautiful, but.... What a hassle.
                                Special cali problems man; its a PITA.
                                OBD1 M54/M52TU swap as a M50b25

                                Z4 non powered steering rack fits e30



                                Euro e46 2005/6 320d 6mt gearbox into E30 with M20 hardy and beck 1985 327s engine

                                Comment

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