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Self-driving cars- the future or just another shiny toy?

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  • dessutom
    replied
    Originally posted by djjerme View Post
    Funny, we are going to depend on technology (autonomous vehicles) to save us from technology (cell phone usage/distraction in cars).


    #endPointlessRant

    This is a very good point. I also believe that before introducing autonomous vehicles, we can do better with educating drivers on how to behave behind the wheel and limiting their access to distractions in the car. As much as we don't like this, however, a future of autonomous replacing traditional driving, is coming. I don't think companies will stop developing this technology but they really need to do something for the people who enjoy driving. The affordability question is also one to take into account. I personally don't like the idea of shared rides, it may be selfish, it may be stupid, but I enjoy driving on my own and not carpooling with a bunch of people I don't know. That's what buses and trains are for.

    Leave a comment:


  • djjerme
    replied
    Funny, we are going to depend on technology (autonomous vehicles) to save us from technology (cell phone usage/distraction in cars).

    I wonder if this would be as much of a push if we decided instead to truly ban cell phone usage in cars.

    Touching back on a previously brought up post about completely, 100% compliance; how is everyone going to afford this? I see cars all the time that shouldn't be on the road because they are rolling death traps - but if we all of a sudden, said "No, you can't have that car anymore and you need to buy a new self driving car." You can bet the various organizations will throw their arms up and claim racism, class segregation..etc. Unless you go to just a pure car share setup where then NOBODY owns a car and all of them are publicly owned like a utility...

    I don't know.

    Personally, I still enjoy driving, and still believe that the journey sometimes is just as important as the destination. Why do some people take the train vs a plane? Sure, it's cost somewhat, but there is something to be said about watching the world go by at ground level.

    I'm just picturing a world where all the autonomous cars have no windows because that distracts from being able work on documents, play Minecraft..etc while heading to the store.


    #endPointlessRant

    Leave a comment:


  • e30davie
    replied
    The work car is a top model Ford Mondeo. It has features that i was quite impressed with:

    - the lane assist thing, that the steering wheel vibrates and alarms you when you start to leave your lane - good for if you fall asleep. I think it turns a little for you too.
    -cruise control that keeps a certain distance from the car in front - this is the coolest feature. so handy when driving on the highway, and especially on single lane roads where the person in front cant keep constant speed
    -automatic braking when stuff is in front - because im an engineer and need to know how things work i tried this out, the car braked itself from 80km/h down to basically stopped without any user braking input to a parked car. Cool feature and would very much reduce injury from a rear ender. Although i did take an onramp turn a bit too fast one day and it thought that i was going to hit the outside of the guard rail, so started breaking itself a little, was a bit weird.

    if new cars start coming standard with these features listed it would do a world of good from a safety point of view without being fully fledged AI. and i think its only a matter of time that they do, wasn't that long ago stability control was optional, now in Australia at least all new cars must have it.

    Leave a comment:


  • LowR3V'in
    replied
    i almost got rear ended by some lady that was looking for something
    on her passenger floor. bring those self driving cars i want them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Panici
    replied
    Originally posted by AndrewBird View Post
    I'm all for the type of autonomous driving that is basically cruise control with steering and braking as well. Would make commuting and stop and go traffic much nicer.

    Being able to have all the cars talk to each other would be a great idea, even if not autonomous. Imagine being able to have the car avoid a crash because of info it got from all the other cars around it.
    Both of these points mirror my thoughts.



    Automatic braking (& lane holding if done properly) will only help to reduce accidents as computers don't get distracted or fatigued like human drivers.
    This would be a welcome improvement for me, as it reduces the chances of some idiot ruining all of my efforts with my E30 restoration.



    --


    I would daily drive a vehicle with as many autonomous features as possible, provided they can be customized and turned off at a driver's discretion. I feel the same way about traction control & stability control. If a few folks want to go "full manual" in a responsible matter, that should always be an option.



    The overwhelming majority of drivers will leave features enabled, and improve safety for everyone.



    --


    All that said, as a driving & vehicle enthusiast, I will never part with my manual transmission unassisted vehicles.

    --

    Leave a comment:


  • dessutom
    replied
    Originally posted by e30davie View Post
    Are you an engineer dessutom?
    Nooo, far from it, I am trying to be a (service) designer, went back to university recently and nothing's changed since I last left it.

    Leave a comment:


  • dessutom
    replied
    Originally posted by george graves View Post
    Good point. Sadly, I don't think it's taught in university anymore.
    By the looks of it, it is a good strategy to keep ethics at bay, businesses do not profit from it and universities are always wondering how to catch up with industry. I more and more feel like people are just lab mice for governments and businesses, we more or less have always been, I guess.

    Leave a comment:


  • e30davie
    replied
    Are you an engineer dessutom?

    Leave a comment:


  • dessutom
    replied
    Originally posted by Northern View Post
    50% of engineering classes are about ethics somehow. Maybe not outright saying "No" to your boss, but understanding that you have a professional obligation to not pull a Pinto.
    Might be, they should. When university is over, real life happens and it's a whole new world. Formal education still lags behind and does not prepare us for what's coming after. However, loans and rents are not a good excuse for behaving unethically, not only in engineering jobs. Ethics is a luxury though. It's a vicious circle, in order for one to be able to afford it, they need to be financially stable enough first.

    Leave a comment:


  • Northern
    replied
    Originally posted by george graves View Post
    Good point. Sadly, I don't think it's taught in university anymore.
    50% of engineering classes are about ethics somehow. Maybe not outright saying "No" to your boss, but understanding that you have a professional obligation to not pull a Pinto.

    Leave a comment:


  • george graves
    replied
    Originally posted by dessutom View Post
    Engineers actually DO have the responsibility to say "no" if a corporation wants to create something that is detrimental for the society. History again shows most didn't
    Good point. Sadly, I don't think it's taught in university anymore.

    Leave a comment:


  • dessutom
    replied
    Originally posted by e30davie View Post
    Years ago i remember seeing an interview with an engineer working on autonomous cars, and he was basically saying he can program it to do whatever we want, but its not the engineers decision as to what the car does in these decisions. It would be very interesting to see how this is handled these days in the cars we have. Are these hard decisions sitting at the CEO level? is Elon Musk signing off on the decision matrix for his cars? Probably. Should we be leaving it up to one guy to make decisions like this? probably not.

    You are right that we shouldn't let one person or one company to make those decisions for everyone, this is exactly what I want to draw attention to, primarily the automotive producers' attention because corporations wrongly assume that the fact they are influential and have resources, gives them the right to do whatever they please. Well, history shows that this has happened, it is still happening but it's certainly not right, at least from my point of view. Engineers actually DO have the responsibility to say "no" if a corporation wants to create something that is detrimental for the society. History again shows most didn't, that's why Facebook and Twitter and such have become so destructive. I hope we can avoid that with autonomous vehicles because they certainly have the potential to work in people's favour.

    Leave a comment:


  • george graves
    replied
    Originally posted by varg View Post
    they are far from being common.
    I don't look at it as a percentage of cars on the road to get data, I look at it as miles driven. Of course you don't need 50% of the car on the road to be self-driving to get data That's absurd.

    And there's been more miles driven on a self driving car then you or I have driven in our lifetimes. So - yea.

    From a computer science perspective, the tech is evolving at a hockey stick type graph.

    Real world and anecdotally, as i said before - there will be accidents. And a lot of this depends on how the media covers it. So far it's really been cruel to Tesla (and no, I don't own stock, or the car, or plan to ever)

    I'll just leave this here....you're driving on a country road, you and the car approaching are both doing 60 mph. The other driver reaches for a cheetos she got at walmart, and it dropped down her blouse, cause she missed her big fat mouth and swerves into your lane. That's a 120 mph impact. You die cause she wants a snack, and she missed her mouth.

    I want a computer driving her car. Hell yes I do.

    Leave a comment:


  • varg
    replied
    Originally posted by george graves View Post
    Yea, and that arpanet never went anywhere! :)

    I think if you had followed the work that Stanford did during the DARPA challenge(Sebastian Thrun) and realise where things are today, you would see things in a different light. That work was started in 2004 - FIFTEEN YEARS AGO - in technology terms, that's a forever ago. The state of things today is well beyond what you paint it to be frank.
    Sarcasm doesn't change the fact that they are far from being common. People are vastly oversimplifying the complexity of the task at hand, DARPA challenge stuff was a mere oddity and barely worked even though it was done on static courses with little to no unpredictable factors. Self driving cars will have to deal almost entirely in unpredictable factors, teslas on autopilot still have issues holding lane and detecting stopped traffic and they're crunching millions of miles worth of data and constantly updating things. Current state: not commercially viable by a longshot, will be lucky to even be deployed on more than a limited test basis in the next 5 years let alone reach common status in the next 10.

    Originally posted by e30strokr View Post
    we should have more trains...
    We don't all live in urban areas.

    Leave a comment:


  • e30strokr
    replied
    Originally posted by e30davie View Post
    I think the big issue is the idea of programming morality into these cars. Often derived from the trolley problem thought experiment.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem

    .

    trying to put feelings into a car wont help.. it will eventually be a numbers game if its inevitable... quote morpheus here.....


    granny vs 3 kids..
    3 kids Vs 2 adults
    1 granny with a puppy Vs 2 adults


    where waffleswaffleswaffles s it stop?


    we should have more trains...

    Leave a comment:

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