Closet Gas Hogs anything E85 FTL

[KevyWevy]

Its better than hybrid cars, that's for sure.

im not saying that hybrids are all that great (mostly because a turbo diesel over seas can get the same or better mpg than any hybrid) but im curios as to why you think they're better.

[craig4ie]

Ethanol is a very touchy subject...renewable yay...water consumption boo...high energy content with similar properties as gas yay...use of agricultural resources boo...


I'm taking a course on fuel cells right now, it's a very interesting topic.

I believe hydrogen has an important role to play in the future. But it will be a long time before it can be effectively integrated into the transportation sector. Look for fuel cells to start being implemented in electricity sorage and mobile electronics applications before they ever show up in a readily available vehicle.

[backtrail69]

Speaking of which...

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/02/21/s...th-than-fossi/

[Erick]

Its better than hybrid cars, that's for sure.

[KevyWevy]

but hydrogen is essentially just converting energy. it takes lots of energy to produce it... and where is that energy coming from? coal (for most areas in the country)? of course this gets more into lifecyle emissions (climate change) than energy independance...

[Erick]

Brazil tried ethanol and it failed.... horribly. (Although there are still people that believe it's a miracle). But horray for destroying out top soil to fuel a country.

Ethanol is wack. *awaits hydrogen to come into play*

[KevyWevy]

E85 and the push for ehtanol is the result of political pressure and rewards to AgBusiness. Big oil has kind of sided with them.

There are clearly some better options out there, but they don't fit the profit models of these industries and these are the industries with the greatest lobbying power.

ding ding ding!!! :stupid:

im really interested in algea biodiesel. there is a guy who is working on growing it in large plastic bag about 2" thick that hang vertically, no water loss due to evaporation, only a little loss from processing... but we'll see.
linky for those interested...

http://www.valcent.net/s/Ecotech.asp?ReportID=182039

there is a little video you can watch where the guy explains it, if you don't wanna read hahahaha.

[backtrail69]

There are something like 140,000 gas stations in the US and only MAYBE 10% has ethanol available. I have never personally seen one...

[SchnellerVert]

The whole thing is just plain stupid. What's your nearest E85 station? 11 miles with no public access, the closest, 31 miles....defeats the purpose.

[Dave]

E85 and the push for ehtanol is the result of political pressure and rewards to AgBusiness. Big oil has kind of sided with them.

There are clearly some better options out there, but they don't fit the profit models of these industries and these are the industries with the greatest lobbying power.

[backtrail69]

Actually you want to use something like switch grass which yields a lot more heat energy per weight than corn, takes less energy to refine and is less harmful to the soil it grows in.. Brazil uses sugarcane because that was a big crop there and was feasible to use as a fuel, we would have to import a large majority of sugarcane defeating the self serving nature of ethanol.

[SchnellerVert]

Then we should have sourced Sugar from sugar cane or say sugar beets which have more ethanol per sq acre than corn.

It was a weak stop gap, and if anything has caused the market to reflect higher costs for fuel.

[NC325iC]

thats not the point of ethanol though, its not supposed to give you better mileage that was never the plan, the idea behind it was to reduce dependence on fossil fuels and to give us a renewable source to power our automobiles

edit: and no i dont support it either, i think its a stupid idea, we should not be jumping straight to a renewable source (i know e85 isnt 100% ethanol) i think we should transfer to a more abundant fossil fuel while looking for new solutions, ie natural gas and propane

[TwistyTunedE30]

+ the amount of water that you have to consume to produce it...just a bad idea all around IMO..
-Max

[KevyWevy]

and the amount of energy benefit produced from it is very little to nothing with all of the energy that goes into producing it
ethanol from corn or any food source is a horrible idea.