Something Something Tony G's E30 Sedan (we're using a coupe now) - S54 Swap

[spike68]

So last night I decided to get the work bench cleared off of piston related things and start on disassembling the head.

DSC_1549 by Anthony Gomez, on Flickr

DSC_1551 by Anthony Gomez, on Flickr

DSC_1538 by Anthony Gomez, on Flickr

Unfortunately what I noticed was debris all over the head. While I was gone on a vacation almost a month ago one of my family members decided that while I was gone it was a good idea to refinish a small trailer in my garage spot. The head didn't quite get covered up all the way so this is the result. I'm not mad, but I'm upset. I'm just glad I was already planning on getting the head cleaned anyway.

In the meantime while I'm disassembling, what do you guys think I should use to move the debris to not cause unnecessary scoring? Just hit it with brake cleaner? Or more oil?


I spent a few moments looking at the rocker arm shaft as I previously mentioned it may be damaged. I'm convinced the exhaust side is.

DSC_1539 by Anthony Gomez, on Flickr

You can see in this image where it's the worst case. I cant move the rocker arm over some of that anymore. I guess I was too forceful when I was moving things around.

DSC_1540 by Anthony Gomez, on Flickr

Everywhere else seemed similar to this image and the rocker arms had no trouble skating over those.


The last thing I was thinking about was the protruding studs on the head. Is it normal to remove all the studs before taking to the machine shop? Do they need to be removed? I guess I could ask them, but I'm leaning towards doing it.

[moatilliatta]

Can you get the debris to move with a good blow gun?

Studs left in the head, then hot tanked sometime are just stuck. I’m sure they will remove them if needed to deck the head. Defiantly deck the block and head super fine for a mls finish.

If they blast the head which has its own pros and cons you’ll have to run a thread chaser to tap in all the holes. The theory is that there will be left over media in the oil passages. Blasted aluminum just seems to soak up grease quicker even though it’s looks “pretty” when done, alternatively you could get it vapor honed to look real pretty.

I assume something has happened to this motor, so a fine tooth comb should be kept handy.

How did the main bearings, cams and journals look?

[ForcedFirebird]

The debris shouldn't matter much, you can spray it with brake clean or I often use PB Blaster while pulling things apart. Also can use some non-lye de-greaser to soften the carbon. The m20 rocker arms are often stuck on the shafts, so I stick them in a bucket of de-greaser while assembled.Heck, I've had some m50/52 heads that were so caked with carbon and sludge, a screwdriver would stand up on it's own in the muck - cleaned up like new.

The machine shop will remove the studs. Unless you have a stud removal socket set, you'll be there all day double nutting - besides depending on their machine setup, the stud may be able to stay in and time is wasted.

Actually, now that I think about it, the s54 heads should be complete when you drop it off as they will be required to re-lash the valves after facing and tipping them (facing makes the valve stem stick up higher, tipping brings them back down some). Before buying the machinery to do heads completely in-house the local spot made me bring the whole head on any solid lifter heads.

I picked up the Wiesco VSK4 kit. It has tons of shims and is a fraction of the OEM cost.

[spike68]

Can you get the debris to move with a good blow gun?

Studs left in the head, then hot tanked sometime are just stuck. I’m sure they will remove them if needed to deck the head. Defiantly deck the block and head super fine for a mls finish.

If they blast the head which has its own pros and cons you’ll have to run a thread chaser to tap in all the holes. The theory is that there will be left over media in the oil passages. Blasted aluminum just seems to soak up grease quicker even though it’s looks “pretty” when done, alternatively you could get it vapor honed to look real pretty.

I assume something has happened to this motor, so a fine tooth comb should be kept handy.

How did the main bearings, cams and journals look?

I think I'm just going to spray with brake cleaner and/or PB blaster. It seems leaving the studs in the way to go.

You make a good point about the head finish. I'll talk to them when I drop it off. I'll also just talk to them about how hey clean, but I'm pretty sure it's hot tank.

I talked about the main bearings in a previous post. They looked fine for the most part, but one had scoring without scoring in the crank. New main bearings will be ordered. You think OEM or just go ARP?

The debris shouldn't matter much, you can spray it with brake clean or I often use PB Blaster while pulling things apart. Also can use some non-lye de-greaser to soften the carbon. The m20 rocker arms are often stuck on the shafts, so I stick them in a bucket of de-greaser while assembled.Heck, I've had some m50/52 heads that were so caked with carbon and sludge, a screwdriver would stand up on it's own in the muck - cleaned up like new.

The machine shop will remove the studs. Unless you have a stud removal socket set, you'll be there all day double nutting - besides depending on their machine setup, the stud may be able to stay in and time is wasted.

Actually, now that I think about it, the s54 heads should be complete when you drop it off as they will be required to re-lash the valves after facing and tipping them (facing makes the valve stem stick up higher, tipping brings them back down some). Before buying the machinery to do heads completely in-house the local spot made me bring the whole head on any solid lifter heads.

I picked up the Wiesco VSK4 kit. It has tons of shims and is a fraction of the OEM cost.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll definitely everything a quick spray with some brake clean.

I'm probably thinking too hard about the machine shop abilities. I'm spending too much time trying to minimize their time needed, but you pose a good point about leaving the studs in. They've probably got all the tools they need. The machine shop recommendation came from a reputable euro mechanic shop in the ATL area so this place is more than capable.

Lastly, you make a good point about the valve lashing. I didn't even think about that part. This saves me a bunch of time so I'll go ahead and get the cams back in.






Seriously thank you to everyone for the feedback and recommendations. This is making me really glad that I posted this thread. As much as I try to think through things myself I'll always miss something or think too hard about something.

[moatilliatta]

Stock main bolts, WPC treated Genuine main bearings. But wait to see what the machine shop says about main journal size.

It can be difficult finding a good machine shop. The one I use is hour + away. The owner operator used to work for a place that built dodge race engine and they do a lot of higher end circle track stuff and older nascar motors. But the guy listens, detailed / Peformance orientated, won’t cut corners to get it done faster, spending extra time checking info..

I was a 4ngiefest attendee, 88ix Diamond Schwartz with plastic bumpers, SRDs, Ground Controls, and konig remembers.

[ForcedFirebird]

Aluminum won't be hot tanked, maybe jet washed. Lye eats aluminum, and that's why we have to do the m20 intermediate bearings when the block is tanked. Most likely it will get a jet wash rinse and blasted with a soft media. Usually walnut shell or vapor honed.

It's hard to find good machinists these days, they are dropping like flies down here. Most of them are just closing shop and retiring, no one to take their place. All we have left are the quick turn-around places that barely make stock tolerances. We ported a set of v6 heads that were sent to Finland, had flow numbers and all from the bench. Before I had a valve machine, I would bring them to the local shop, and even handed them the cutters I wanted them to use. Well, after a month in transit, the guy in Finland flowed the heads and they didn't match my numbers. Took a while to figure it out, but the employee at the machine shop was digging the seats too low - a couple weeks later and bought machines from old head repair shop.

[spike68]

Sorry I went quiet for a bit. I'm somewhat at a hold up since I still need to take everything to the machine shop. Been waiting on my shim kit to show up so I can partially reassemble the head enough for the machine shop per ForcedFirebird recommendations. I'll admit I also got kinda lazy

But also in the meantime I've made a breakthrough with one of the brothers. All of my work in the garage has motivated him to start working on his e30! Hes got a very clean late model. Found a bimmerheads 3.1 stroker kit and 885 race head on facebook for an awesome deal.

IMG_1049 by Tony Gomez, on Flickr

IMG_1051 by Tony Gomez, on Flickr

IMG_1052 by Tony Gomez, on Flickr

Some cleanup needs to be done since the parts have been sitting around and unfortunately some damage to the CP pistons was not disclosed in the sale, but either way a new set of pistons is still less than buying all of this stuff from Bimmerheads so not all bad.

IMG_1050 by Tony Gomez, on Flickr

I'm excited for all the engine building going on.


-TG

[Northern]

damn that's some heavy corrosion on that piston

[ForcedFirebird]

Don't think that's corrosion. Looks to be detonation damage.

[Northern]

Seems weird that it wouldn't be at any of the sharper corners for the valve reliefs, and there's some down at the wrist pin slot + the rod looks like it has pits as well.

Looks like some of the Al-Li parts we used to pull off the helicopters that spent a lot of time around salt water. Huge eroded/exfoliated sections, insane pitting.

[ForcedFirebird]

Seems weird that it wouldn't be at any of the sharper corners for the valve reliefs, and there's some down at the wrist pin slot + the rod looks like it has pits as well.

Looks like some of the Al-Li parts we used to pull off the helicopters that spent a lot of time around salt water. Huge eroded/exfoliated sections, insane pitting.

I was thinking similar at first, but the rings should have been rusted/flaking with that much corrosion. I had an s50 that a client severely overheated at the track, his piston looked almost identical. I think it might still be floating around the shop, will have to take a look.

[spike68]

Another quick update. I suck and still haven't gotten everything to the machine shop, but I did make an attempt!

ForcedFirebird you wern't kidding about machine shops dying. I took everything to a place thats been around since I was in high school. When I walked in they had parts laying around EVERYWHERE. The owner was kind enough to explain the situation and the issues they're having from their trade perspective. Basically they can't find anyone to work so it's just him and one other guy.

They were willing to take the head from me because thats a quick turnaround, but they were unwilling to take the block because they don't have a guy currently to perform the services I'm looking for. They know how to do it, but are struggling for the time. They said earliest appointment to check the block was on Halloween. At this point I think I'm going to take the block elsewhere. Theres a machine shop down the street from me that said they can turn it around sooner so I'm probably going that route.

In the meantime I also tend to let wheels take my money away from me. Picked up a set of TE37 Sonic wheels off FB. I just couldn't help myself. Specs are 16x8 +25 (so I'll need a spacer). These wheels are absolutely perfect. No scratches, no stains, original stickers are very much in tact, and the guy mentioned he mounted them on his civic and only drives it to the gym and back. Sure they were expensive, but I knowing what these go for new this guy wasn't trying to make a bunch of money off them.

This marks wheel set Albums for my e30...............yeah I know it's a problem.

IMG_1135 by Tony Gomez, on Flickr

[spike68]

Alright I'm finally bumping my thread again because I've got some worthy news.

After feeling depressed about the wait times from machine shops in my area I finally got my engine block dropped off to the machine shop on Halloween and this morning they confirmed with me they can perform honing to remove the scoring and still keep the walls within spec. This means I can continue using the set of stock pistons I went to buy.

Next is coming up with a list of parts I need for reassembly. This is all conveniently happening right before I get my yearly bonus as well :D

I mentioned before that I was coming up with a master list of items, but have not completed that yet. For now I need to think of items I need to grab for the immediate re-built, lets say enough to get the motor sealed up. New piston rings, oil seals, upgrade head studs?, upgraded timing chain guides?, vanos components?

Might be looking for some guidance on recommendations.

[moatilliatta]

Make sure the machine shop finishes the head and deck on an RA good enough for a MLS, Stock head gasket, Stock head bolts work great. IMO Id go overbore to make sure you get the correct Piston to wall clearance, the ring sets are $200 a hole, makes a new set of pistons seem reasonable.

A torque plate is preferred,

[spike68]

Make sure the machine shop finishes the head and deck on an RA good enough for a MLS, Stock head gasket, Stock head bolts work great. IMO Id go overbore to make sure you get the correct Piston to wall clearance, the ring sets are $200 a hole, makes a new set of pistons seem reasonable.

A torque plate is preferred,

This is the stuff that I really don't know when it comes to machine shops. The finish on the head looks pretty dang good. I'll get some photos, but I did not verify with the machine shop.

To your overbore point it's not a bad idea considering I just found out the cost of rings a few nights ago. Ouch. Since I've already got them proceeding with just honing the cylinders my current plan is to evaluate the rings that I pulled from the motor. I'm also looking into gapless top rings to provide some level of "freshness". Thoughts? Or waste of money?