Old Blue 2002 (1974 BMW 2002 Content)

[deutschman]

Thanks guys.

[merlinfe]

Just read all 18 pages.

All I have to say is DAMN!
Can't wait to see this car rollin with the M20! keep up the good work.

[Justin B]

Lookin good as usual man. Im glad those valves were caught, that is terrible! The intake valve looks just like they cast a used carboned-up valve for that then machined the seat . Ugly

[deutschman]

They are not for long drives. The farthest I have been in them is about an hour and a half northof SF and I don't care to go any farther in them.
How ever they are great for spirited driving!!! Comfortable and snug. I am 6' 3" and about 200lb and they are good for me. Don't buy the Corbeau sliders. They kind of suck. I need to cut out the stock seat mounting points and weld in some lower ones. My seats are way to high for me right now.

Got a few odds and ends in the mail. Mr. Gasket hood pins. I am going to cut the section that holds the stock hood latch out of the engine bay so I have more room.
I also got my Comp Cams Engine Assembly Lube for when the head is back.

[drutt23]

Nice work man! Keep it up! I'm excited to see this rollin with M20 powa soon!! Quick question for you though....how do you like those fixed back Corbeaus??? Are they comfortable? How are they for long drives?

[deutschman]

Yeah I am really happy with Tim at Morgan's Machine and Marine! Stand up shop with stand up guys.

[frankenbeemer]

Unless I'm missing something, this is solid info, backed up with ample evidence, that will help others avoid a costly mistake.

Those IE valves didn't look that bad until compared with the swiss ones from blunt. Who knows what grade of steel was used if they look like sintered metal on the valve faces? With all the counterfeit high grade bolts coming out of China, I wonder how IE would know if these meet specifications or not? IE will cease selling these, I hope.

Your machinist is a gem. I think you should buy him a beer and send me the bill.

[deutschman]

^
Yep. So disappointed.
How ever I want to add that i have gotten some really great stuff from Ireland, and that people should not steer away from their products all together. Every company sells a few things that suck, and these just happen to be one of Ireland's lesser quality items.

[LJ851]

Wow , those are not pretty. The intakes look like they are only machined on the stem and seat area. You did the right thing, and your machinist is not out of line in my book. Not OE quality at all.

[deutschman]

Just got back from the Machine shop after hearing what Tim had to say and show me about the Ireland valves. He was not being overly picky. Let me start off by saying if I had not been in a rush to get to the shop, and had taken each valve out and looked at it, I would have been able to see some of these imperfections with my naked eye no - measuring needed. The intake valves had some really bad metal imperfections because of the way they were machined/produced. The exhaust valves had huge differences in the valve margin, to the point of being able to see it with the naked eye. Non of the valves had a protective coating/skinning (blue chrome) on the stem. Now Tim said they were also made of weaker steel then the valves I got from Blunt, but I can not confirm that my self.

Now for some pictures.

Intake:

New intake valve. Heat treated smooth surface.

Ireland intake valve. Bad imperfections in the metal!


New

Ireland



Exhaust:

New

Ireland


Valve margin on the exhaust valves:

Naked eye

Measuring



A good valve should also have a protective smooth metal coating on the stem. The new valves I got from Blunt came with a Blue Chrome coating on the stem. It is a bit hard to see in the pictures, but if you take the valve and look up close you can see where the Blue Chrome starts and stops.

The Ireland valve does not have this.


Basically these valves will work... but if you want to run your motor for another 100,000 then these are not the valves to go with. If you are spending hundreds of dollars on head work and getting a 3 angle valve job, these are not the valves to go with.
Sadly this is a case of trying to save money buy getting valves made in Asia (China) for a few bucks each, and then selling them for the same price as I got my Blunt valves for.
The Ireland valves were $259.20 with out the shipping. I got the nice valves from Blunt (Steve) for $234.84 with free over night shipping.
I am sorry to call Ireland out like this, but these really are pore valves, and maybe they will start selling a better valve some time soon. :(

[deutschman]

I got my new valves from Blunt today. Fast as always!
They are made by Inter Valves (Switzerland).
Inter Valves

Ireland Valves

By "skinned" he meant coated. He said that there were signs of stress on the surface of the metal created by the way they were machined.
The valves I ordered from Blunt are OE.
This may be a case of a overly picky machinist, but I trust this guy. He has been working on all kinds of motors his whole life (Asian, Euro, and Domestic), and he has a very good reputation in the Bay Area.
I to was surprised when he told me the valves were not the best. I usually love my Ireland parts and they make things for my '02 that you just can not get from anyone ells.
If the valves really are bad it might not even be Ireland's fault. They get a lot of these valves made, and I am sure that some times a bad set slips threw.
As fare as the skin/coating goes, that might just be preference thing.
I don't know. The two sets of valves look almost the same to me. The set from blunt does not have the heat treatment on the smaller valves.
I might still decide to use Ireland's valves after I compare the two at the shop tomorrow.
The problem then is that I paid for two sets of valves, and I am only using one.
I guess i could sell a set, if I can not return one or the other.
Ireland has been very helpful so fare and said there is no problem what so ever with me sending the valves back.

[frankenbeemer]

A few questions, if you don't mind.

I know what margin is but what does "skinned mean"? Is it just another word for coating?

Besides the poor margins and lack of coating, were there any other features that indicated these valves were not first quality?

What valves did you order from blunt? Are they OEM or something else?

I hope IE will take care of this with no hassle, I like their stuff in general, and I suspect they have some good stuff that you can't get from blunt. Of course, I would check with blunt first on anything, it seems people never have a problem with his parts or service, plus free CnB, where else can you get that!?. Kudo's to your machinist, he's the one I would go to if I wasn't on the wrong coast.

[mr2peak]

Sounds like you've found a good machinist. Hurrah for other things going right!

[deutschman]

So I talked to my machinist today, and he said that the valve margins were off which messes with the valve tip height and leads to premature ware of other valve train parts. He also told me that he was disappointed with the fact that the valves were not coated/skinned.
I talked to two gentleman at Ireland about the valves. The first one was nicer than the second, the second being grumpy and defensive when all I was trying to do was figure out what they thought about what was going on with the valves. Weird.
I ordered valves and guides from Blunt. If Tim does not like these he is just being to picky.

[deutschman]

Well I will just have to call and ask a lot of questions. Maybe it is lazy, but when I drop hundreds of dollars on parts, I assume that the vender is not going to sell me sub standard parts. Especially some one with the reputation Ireland has.