Rally / RallyX Build

[sileighty]

after driving a FD and demoing in an AWD, it's clear an RD really can't be competitive

Thought you might want to watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqx9cH_r9ig

In that rally Hayden Paddon won 1st overall in an old Ford Escort. So it's possible ;)

[paynemw]

Before I bought this car I found that youtube saga of some guys that bought an e30, set it up for rally, did a stage race then pretty much just swapped shocks and struts and wheels/tires and did a chump race.

I think electrical is the biggest hurdle since rally has to be street legal and chump not, I have not stripped wiring harness yet. That's gonna take some thought...maybe separate dash/clusters that are swapped in/out with some kind of adapter for wiring harness that makes that simple...

/Born a Car and /My life as a Rallyist

As far as harness for the cluster... err there is apparently a wire that requires the cluster to excite the alternator to produce electricity.

Things I know you can get rid of, side mirror harness, stereo harness (especially if you have a premium sound system harness), central locking harness, cruise control harness. Beyond that I haven't figured out what can be removed without loosing all of the interior

[irish44j]

I think I have a decent idea of what I'm getting into with the chump thing. With the car coming out of the blocks with a VPI of 450, there's not a lot of wiggle room to add stuff under the penalty bar. headers and free flow exhaust help (25 points), then i'm kinda torn between the z3 steering rack and strut bars. The cage tied into strut/shock wells maybe is enough to obviate the need strut bars?? Might also take the approach IE did with those re-enforcing plates that weld on to front strut wells. I can fab a set myself and call it garage mod.

I wouldn't do the z3 rack. For road racing, no real point in the value hit, since you're rarely in need of quicker steering. For rally- z3 rack for sure. IDK, is it a different point penalty than a regular e36 rack?

strut bars are worthless if you're caged. The cage will tie in to the rear shock towers (if it's a good cage) and you can tie into the fronts as well (though I didn't on the rally car). For road racing I dont' personally think the front towers really need reinforcing. We get a lot more abuse in rally and mine are only lightly reinforced.

All that said, Jim built the Chumpcar and deals with the points/values. I just drive and build the rally car. So my take on the track car may not be fully accurate, nor do I know the current Chump/Champcar ruleset all that well. Plenty of people out there who know better than me on that subject!

W.R.T. rally in TX I was very surprised when I went looking for it here. It seems like it would be a great fit culturally, and good god, we have an **insane** quantity of gravel roads and in west Texas some of the roads would be nuts! I think historically there was more rallycross, now not so much.

yeah, strange.....

Before I bought this car I found that youtube saga of some guys that bought an e30, set it up for rally, did a stage race then pretty much just swapped shocks and struts and wheels/tires and did a chump race. Thought that was great, and I keep that switch out model in the back of my mind when i'm buying gear. i think there's a little bit more to it than what they did to do it right, but i still can't see where it'd be more than a day to do the complete change out once you've done it a few times???

Yep, Ryan Symacek and Dan Downey and those guys? They're buddies of mine from rally (Dan is one of the best e30 rallyists these days, as mentioned in my thread).

I can change out my front springs (Ground Control setup) in like an hour, and rears in less than that. Shocks can use the HDs for both, really. Then re-attach swaybar endlinks, throw on track pads and wheels/tires, and go.

Yeah, more to it than that, but not MUCH more...

This car really does seem to be a Swiss army knife platform. Modularity is key to making that work. I think electrical is the biggest hurdle since rally has to be street legal and chump not, I have not stripped wiring harness yet. That's gonna take some thought...maybe separate dash/clusters that are swapped in/out with some kind of adapter for wiring harness that makes that simple...

Jim (who owns our Chumpcar and codrives the rally car), always says he wishes we had kept the stock dash and such rather than stripping it all out "racecar style." There's no reason not to have a dash on a track car, and tons of e30 track cars have basically a stock dash with some gauges added in a pod like mine - Spec e30, for one. We still use mostly stock wiring harnesses in both cars (though both have additional wiring for gauges and for auxiliary lighting).

[atxE30]

lol, got it. Is there no rallycross in Texas near you? I wasn't saying not to do Chump...we love chump. I was just saying that e30s aren't all that competitive any more in Chump, unless they are really built to the max.

I'm starting to lean toward trying to do "all motorsports" with my e30....especially if I M5x swap it at some point...I want to do wheel-to-wheel racing ont he track, ice racing, hillclimbs, etc in addition to rally. And the great thing is that the e30 is "good" at all of those things if not "great"....all it takes is swapping out wheels and some suspension stuff to be able to do different motorsports.

I'm really surprised in the lack of rally in Texas though.....all that freaking space! Sure, maybe less woodland rally but IDK why there isn't more baja-style rally out there (toned down for regular stage rally cars). That would be cool.

I think I have a decent idea of what I'm getting into with the chump thing. With the car coming out of the blocks with a VPI of 450, there's not a lot of wiggle room to add stuff under the penalty bar. headers and free flow exhaust help (25 points), then i'm kinda torn between the z3 steering rack and strut bars. The cage tied into strut/shock wells maybe is enough to obviate the need strut bars?? Might also take the approach IE did with those re-enforcing plates that weld on to front strut wells. I can fab a set myself and call it garage mod.

W.R.T. rally in TX I was very surprised when I went looking for it here. It seems like it would be a great fit culturally, and good god, we have an **insane** quantity of gravel roads and in west Texas some of the roads would be nuts! I think historically there was more rallycross, now not so much.

Before I bought this car I found that youtube saga of some guys that bought an e30, set it up for rally, did a stage race then pretty much just swapped shocks and struts and wheels/tires and did a chump race. Thought that was great, and I keep that switch out model in the back of my mind when i'm buying gear. i think there's a little bit more to it than what they did to do it right, but i still can't see where it'd be more than a day to do the complete change out once you've done it a few times???

This car really does seem to be a Swiss army knife platform. Modularity is key to making that work. I think electrical is the biggest hurdle since rally has to be street legal and chump not, I have not stripped wiring harness yet. That's gonna take some thought...maybe separate dash/clusters that are swapped in/out with some kind of adapter for wiring harness that makes that simple...

[irish44j]

lol, got it. Is there no rallycross in Texas near you? I wasn't saying not to do Chump...we love chump. I was just saying that e30s aren't all that competitive any more in Chump, unless they are really built to the max.

I'm starting to lean toward trying to do "all motorsports" with my e30....especially if I M5x swap it at some point...I want to do wheel-to-wheel racing ont he track, ice racing, hillclimbs, etc in addition to rally. And the great thing is that the e30 is "good" at all of those things if not "great"....all it takes is swapping out wheels and some suspension stuff to be able to do different motorsports.

I'm really surprised in the lack of rally in Texas though.....all that freaking space! Sure, maybe less woodland rally but IDK why there isn't more baja-style rally out there (toned down for regular stage rally cars). That would be cool.

[atxE30]

@irish44j,

OK, I hear everything you are saying. And I'm not giving up on rally. I had an absolute blast out at the Rally Ready facility. Loved the vibe. In a lot of ways it seemed very similar to the MTB scene I've raced in off and on over a long time, i.e. pretty chill.

I am a total newbie to racing cars. I'm not new to racing in general, done that in sailboats since a kid and bikes (road and mtb) for the last like 18 years. But cars? nada. I need to maximize seat time in racing scenarios in the near term as much as possible. For that I can race once a month in Miata's at track 30 mins from house in a field of 20+ and chump at least 4 times a year all within 2-3 hour or less drive.

The lack of rally events near me is a real issue. I've been in niche sports that required a lot of travel to compete forever, and right now just don't have the desire to do multi-day travel...yet...in the meantime i'll figure out a way to participate at the one or two events that are being talked about at the RR facility and pile on the seat time.

I'm hanging up the power meter and the zipp's after a long, long time to start down this path so i'll figure all this out sooner or later :)

In the meantime, I'm having a lot of fun working on the car! (and referring to your thread to keep me from doing a lot of stupid things...heh...)

[irish44j]

OK,

So after some contemplation time following training out at Rally Ready, I've decided that based on 1) Rallying the 325 would destroy it due to my being a newbie and all but surely doing stupid things, 2) after driving a FD and demoing in an AWD, it's clear an RD really can't be competitive and 3) the dearth of opportunities in TX to actually do rally stage racing, it's time to pivot to making the 325 a chump/champ car.

Ugh, sorry to hear that you feel that way. But let me throw some alternate out for you:

1. So are yo saying you're not going to rally at all? Because that's the risk for any car. And a Fiesta or WRX rally car costs a lot more to replace than an e30 when you hit a tree. I know we're here on R3V, but let's not pretend that the e30 is some kind of magical and rare car that cannot be risked. Go drive the fuck out of it, and if it gets wrecked, it gets wrecked.

2. Comparing AWD to RWD and "which is competitive" is irrelevant. They don't run in the same classes either in rallycross or in stage rally. so unless you have an idea that you're going to take an overall win at a stage rally, it's a pointless argument. FTD in rallycross is just for bragging rights and nobody cares if you are FTD.

If you mean RWD (e30) can't be competitive in stage rally 2WD classing, you need to look closer at rally results. Look up Michael Hooper or Jesse Yuvali or Dan Downey. They have plenty of recent podium finishes in major rallies in e30s against other 2WD cars.

Or ask the STi that lost to my 318i in the STPR Super Special last year, lol....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9CKnQSjSLk

3. We run an e30 325i in Chumpcar. Years ago when we started e30s were competitive. They aren't all that competitive any more in Chump/Champ or AER. Go get an e36 or e46 if you want to WIN road-racing a BMW. The are cheap enough to get into these budget series now, and simply put an e30 is outclassed by them on the track, unless you are HEAVILY modified or your team is full of awesome drivers or Randy Pobst.

Your car, do what you want. But the only decent reason for your decision is the lack of local rally events, as you note. But that's the case for rally no matter where you live, unless you live in New England. Closest one to us is a 5-6 hour drive :/

[irish44j]

was planning on leaving the sway bars stock for now. for bushings thinking i will do solid for motor/drive-train and the 93a stuff i think for everything else. the car came with offset CA bushings, so not sure if i'll do those just yet.

.

I replied to you in my thread regarding bushings. As to sways....don't sweat thinking about it too much. You'll eventually remove them both, like almost all e30 rallycross/rally drivers do.

On the topic of brakes:

The cars were all manual brakes. Gonna have to pull that trigger. I can't see how power brakes would be good in a rally car.

personal preference, really. e30 power brakes have good feel to them with the right pad setup. I haven't even considered going to manual, personally. YMMV.

[irish44j]

You might want to rethink the cage. That's a lot of extra weight and unless you really intend on doing stage rally I wouldn't do it. You definitely don't need a cage for rallyx.

Agreed, for rallycross alone, I would at most do a 4-point rollbar, if that. Extra weight is the killer in rallycross. Ask me how I know.

[irish44j]

@Kershaw,

Yeah, I grabbed the nicest one I could find in central TX. It will get pretty much stripped. I'd do manual windows if I could get my hands on regulators. They don't seem to be available anywhere.
.

I did manual conversion (orderd the regulators from the UK, actually). They certainly save some weight. That said, if you ever plan to cage the car, don't bother. Door bars get in the way of manual cranks, at least in a rally cage. I ended up re-installing power windows in the front doors (fixed lexan windows in the rear doors), as you know.

[irish44j]

If I found a car in that condition, would leave it as stock as possible. Original cars are getting hard to come by, but it is yours so have fun with it.

Yeah I'll be honest it's kind of a shame that one that nice is being rallied

Yeah, that car is too nice for rally-cross.

Man that thing is clean! Hell of a better start than mine, I feel like you could just flip it and make a healthy profit to fund your rally build.

What a f**kin sin to turn that car into a rally car. IS cars in that condition are becoming pretty valuable and harder to find. I bought a beat 318i when I wanted to go sideways through the woods.

There is no point in starting a race or rally car with a salvage/rusty/beat-up e30. If you're going to invest a bunch of money into building a race/rally car, you start with an e30 that is in very good condition to start with. I wish I had - it would have saved me doing rust repair, etc.

Just sayin.

[atxE30]

Update and Pivot!

OK,

So after some contemplation time following training out at Rally Ready, I've decided that based on 1) Rallying the 325 would destroy it due to my being a newbie and all but surely doing stupid things, 2) after driving a FD and demoing in an AWD, it's clear an RD really can't be competitive and 3) the dearth of opportunities in TX to actually do rally stage racing, it's time to pivot to making the 325 a chump/champ car.

Fortunately, I was not committed to rally path with equipment purchases yet! To that end made excellent progress this weekend on the interior strip:







Also met some cool folks from the ATX e30 group this weekend.

[kts]

It's these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They are well worth the dough.

I can confirm. I have these and love them.

If you want to protect the pinch weld ECS sells these which fit on top of the Torin jack stands perfectly: https://www.ecstuning.com/b-schwaben...MaArltEALw_wcB

[kid8]

I know Lee offers a setup as well for eliminating the brake booster. I run one of his brake setups and I'm happy with his workmanship. Seems a lot of other are using his booster delete kit also.

http://www.massivebrakes.com/brake-systems.php?p=brake-booster-delete

[atxE30]

On the topic of brakes:

Spent the day yesterday out at Rally Ready (https://rallyready.com doing some training.

The cars were all manual brakes. Gonna have to pull that trigger. I can't see how power brakes would be good in a rally car.

The Chase Bays kit looks nice. Are there any other bolt on kits out there worth looking at?

By the way the facility out at Rally Ready is really nice and seems like a good group of guys. Feeling lucky there is a facility like that near me.