If cash for clunkers wasn't bullshit enough...

[equate975]

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/24/u...ng-compromise/

One bill, sponsored by Rep. Betty Sutton (D-Ohio) would give the largest voucher – up to $5,000 – to purchasers of new vehicles made in the United States. Slightly smaller amounts would be granted for other vehicles made in the rest of North America, and no cash would be granted for the purchase of foreign-made cars. All cars would need to manage at least 27 mpg to qualify, and trucks would need to hit at least 24 mpg.

The other bill, sponsored by Rep. Steve Israel (D-New York), would offer up to $4,500 for the purchase of a new vehicle, assuming that the vehicle being traded-in gets 18 mpg or less, and the new vehicle's fuel efficiency is at least 25% better than average for its class. No distinction would be made based on the vehicle's country of origin.


Fuck if its going to pass, I better be able to use this shit on a non-american car. Somehow I have a feeling the first version will pass to "stimulate the economy"

Bullshit.

[Massive Lee]

One bill, sponsored by Rep. Betty Sutton (D-Ohio) would give the largest voucher – up to $5,000 – to purchasers of new vehicles made in the United States.

This proposition will never make it thru the first step of approval. Right from the start, it is an obvious protectionist proposition. Foreign governments will retaliate by raising taxes on any US product imported in their country, which will slow down US exports. That's not a commercial war the US is willing to face.

[Hallen]

This proposition will never make it thru the first step of approval. Right from the start, it is an obvious protectionist proposition. Foreign governments will retaliate by raising taxes on any US product imported in their country, which will slow down US exports. That's not a commercial war the US is willing to face.

Wow, for once you make sense.

However, given this current administration, I still give bills like this a chance of making it out of committee. It would be devastating on a number of level if something like this actually did make it to law.

It's been discussed here before, but bills like this would have far reaching unintended consequences and will muck up the car market for years. New cars should sell at the rate that new cars are needed and wanted. People that can't afford new cars, or don't want new cars, should buy reasonably priced older cars. Well, we just threw "reasonably priced" older cars out of the picture if we have a bill like this. Imagine, the minimum price you would have to pay for any car would be the cash bounty the government is offering.

[Massive Lee]

As soon as Obama was elected, one of his first proposition to help cut job losses was to require that steel used in infrastructure projects paid by the US govermnent had to be US-made. It took them under 48 hours to remove this proposition as most foreign countries judged it as protectionist and were ready (but unwilling) to start a trade war by putting tax barriers on US-made products if the US was to protect its steel.

It seems that Betty Sutton didn't learn anything...

[chrisesteschiro]

Germany does cash for clunkers just so people will buy new cars and they crush perfectly good ones

[shiftbmw]

On the bright side, there soon won't be anymore car companies manufacturing American cars...

[Jon325i]

On the bright side, there soon won't be anymore car companies manufacturing American cars...

With exception to Ford. You have to admire the fact that they've turned away from accepting any Government bailout funds....at least for 2009. Now if they could just make a car I like/want. For a DD, the new Fiesta (from Europe) looks pretty good.

As for the cash-for-clunkers-so-long-as-you-buy-American proposal OP mentioned, that's just a crock of shit. I wonder if it includes American-built Hondas/Toyotas/BMWs ;-)

Jon

[uofom3]

Wow, for once you make sense.

However, given this current administration, I still give bills like this a chance of making it out of committee. It would be devastating on a number of level if something like this actually did make it to law.

It's been discussed here before, but bills like this would have far reaching unintended consequences and will muck up the car market for years. New cars should sell at the rate that new cars are needed and wanted. People that can't afford new cars, or don't want new cars, should buy reasonably priced older cars. Well, we just threw "reasonably priced" older cars out of the picture if we have a bill like this. Imagine, the minimum price you would have to pay for any car would be the cash bounty the government is offering.

agreed.

Things like this sound really good on their face. People get a car, we stimulate American jobs, etc. It's a "keep it in the family" type of approach.

However, there are so many unintended consequences of something like this it's rediculous. These have already been touched on.

All this really is, in my opinon, is payback to the unions so they can keep their jobs for playing a major part in bringing the current administration into power. These people really do not realize that their unionization is a major, major player in why these problems take place.

Once they file Ch.11 (or whatever code it is), automakers can re-structure, fire some of the union or renegotiate, and get on with making cars people actually want to buy.

[z31maniac]

With exception to Ford. You have to admire the fact that they've turned away from accepting any Government bailout funds....at least for 2009. Now if they could just make a car I like/want. For a DD, the new Fiesta (from Europe) looks pretty good.

As for the cash-for-clunkers-so-long-as-you-buy-American proposal OP mentioned, that's just a crock of shit. I wonder if it includes American-built Hondas/Toyotas/BMWs ;-)

Jon

That's what I was going to say, what defines a foreign car.

[Hallen]

I think the foreign car part was covered. In other words, if it is made here, like Toyota and some BMW, then it counts for the bounty.

Import duties and tariffs are always a bad idea. Protecting industries that are essential to our security is OK, but generally you don't have to use tariffs to do that.

[AndrewBird]

With exception to Ford. Now if they could just make a car I like/want.

All they would need to do is start selling Euro cars here. They get all the GOOD Fords.

[Miatamania]

With exception to Ford. You have to admire the fact that they've turned away from accepting any Government bailout funds....at least for 2009. Now if they could just make a car I like/want. For a DD, the new Fiesta (from Europe) looks pretty good.

As for the cash-for-clunkers-so-long-as-you-buy-American proposal OP mentioned, that's just a crock of shit. I wonder if it includes American-built Hondas/Toyotas/BMWs ;-)

Jon

I want a mother fucking Ford Focus RS...stupid bastards. Just because half of their cars are 10x better than anything they sell over here...that and most dumb rednecks would rather have some v6 auto mustang than a decent car.

[z31maniac]

^It's because people wouldn't pay the $35k-40k it would take to buy a Focus RS on this side of the pond.

[Collin]

All they would need to do is start selling Euro cars here. They get all the GOOD Fords.

Would you pay $46,000 for a focus?

http://www.ford.co.uk/Cars/NewFocusRS

No one should be afraid of the cash for clunker laws, it's a great money making opportunity for anyone who can turn a wrench.

"I'll sell you this $100 dollar car for $1000; I got it to (barely) run for $60, so for $1000 you can get a $3000 discount at the dealership"

[Hallen]

First, the economics of that don't work. Who would sell you a junker for $100 when they know they could get a lot more out of somebody else because the base price for just about any car will be the government's bounty level.

Second, do you think anybody who couldn't afford a $46k Focus is going to be able to afford a $41k Focus?? Not.

You could buy a bottom end, cheap-assed econobox for, what? $15k? Of course, that price will go up because the industry will be losing all kinds of money in parts sales because there are no cars older than 4 years left in the market. Pretty soon, the price with using the bounty will be about the same as the price is now for a new car. And, that shitbox you bought will pretty much be ruined in 4 years anyway so you'll have to buy another. Continual car payments for life, whether you want them or not. Yippeee.

We will have millions of more cars per year sent to the scrapper. Some will be recycled, sure, but not all. Millions of tons of waste will occur much sooner than it should. The first few years would probably overwhelm our ability to get rid of old cars. The costs would skyrocket, but I am sure our government will have some kind of answer for that too like federalizing the waste disposal companies.

When will people learn?? There is NO free lunch.