Who here believes in aliens?

[TwoJ's]

Not really, because if it was expanding like ripples in a pond, it would imply there is a center, which we can't detect at this time and will most likely never be able to if there is one. Not to mention all points in the universe are moving away from us beyond our subcluster at increasing rates, that doesn't happen when one uses a model like ripples from a pond. I too have taken astronomy courses, and like most things it is all theories. There is little evidence to back up your idea of a ripple model from what I have seen beyond "Western Logic".

The existence of a "center of the universe" and our capability to "see" it are not mutually exclusive. Also, I don't know where you get your info, but not everything is moving away from us. The fact that you said that concerns me greatly. Do you realize what it would mean if everything was moving away from us? Think about it -- it would imply that earth, or our solar system, or the milky way was the center of the universe; which we know is not the case. I never said everything is moving away from the "center" at a constant rate. Something that is theoretically closer to the origin; or "center", may be getting farther away without being moving away from us. Get it? It's simply moving from the center at a lesser rate than "we" are.

And I actually haven't taken any astronomy courses... just a bunch of physics courses that included astrophysics. And your reference to "Western logic" is extremely out of date. There is no longer a Western model of logic, math, physics, or science -- we all function within the same paradigm nowadays, and have for a century or so now. If you need more info on how the universe is moving, you should read "A Brief History of Time" by Stephen Hawking. You will learn all about this stuff. Actually, if you were willing to pay for shipping and promised to return it, I'd be happy to loan you my copy.

[LBJefferies]

Not really, because if it was expanding like ripples in a pond, it would imply there is a center, which we can't detect at this time and will most likely never be able to if there is one. Not to mention all points in the universe are moving away from us beyond our subcluster at increasing rates, that doesn't happen when one uses a model like ripples from a pond. I too have taken astronomy courses, and like most things it is all theories. There is little evidence to back up your idea of a ripple model from what I have seen beyond "Western Logic".

Yeah. The universe isn't expanding away from one central point like ripples in a pond. Instead, everything is moving away from everything else.

Also, if spacetime is curved like many scientists believe, then the universe can be infinite. There are two different senses of the word infinite. There is the linear sense which is like counting 1, 2, 3, 100, 1,000,000, and on. There is also the circular sense which is like a circle which goes round and round without hitting any sort of limit. So if space time is curved, then space travel would be in circles. Naw mean?

[E30Kaiser]

On the contrary. It IS expanding like ripples in a pond, only in three dimensions. Sure, I am regurgitating as well, but the difference is that I present with fact contrary to many people in this thread. And I didn't see it on some show on TV, or hear it from some guy, I studied it in an astrophysics course (among other things).

Not really, because if it was expanding like ripples in a pond, it would imply there is a center, which we can't detect at this time and will most likely never be able to if there is one. Not to mention all points in the universe are moving away from us beyond our subcluster at increasing rates, that doesn't happen when one uses a model like ripples from a pond. I too have taken astronomy courses, and like most things it is all theories. There is little evidence to back up your idea of a ripple model from what I have seen beyond "Western Logic".

[TwoJ's]

You have to back up your arguments with a few theories or facts if you want to be effective. Just calling everybody else stupid because you think you know better, isn't very worthwhile.

In a 2d space, Earth is infinite. You can keep going around it forever. In a 3d space, it's obviously finite. So, to an extent, it depends on your perspective, doesn't it? Or are you referring to dimensional membranes that all the universes are bound by (in theory)?

Also, is the universe just the portion that is occupied by stuff (the results of the big bang)? Or is it everything beyond that as well? Is there anything beyond the stuff that exists today? What is the definition of universe? To most of us, it is everything inclusive of the area filled with stuff and the area without. Your definition seems to include only the area filled with stuff that is expanding and therefore finite. But what is it expanding into??

I love the Science channel. :)

What arguments would you like me to back up? I have no desire to comment on every person's babbling in this thread. And I don't claim to know all about this subject, but I do know that I wouldn't comment unless I knew about what I was specifically saying. We could go back and forth all day with different theories but that doesn't interest me. I'd only like to discuss theories that have been accepted by the collective scientific community.

The way the universe is expanding though is very hard to conceptualize though, to merely say it is expanding is just as much to regurgitate something you heard on tv or something. It isn't like you can see the edge slowly but surely moving off into oblivion. It is so hard to visualize the expansion because it is more like the space between objects is increasing more so than the universe is expanding like ripples from the impact of a stone in a pond.

On the contrary. It IS expanding like ripples in a pond, only in three dimensions. Sure, I am regurgitating as well, but the difference is that I present with fact contrary to many people in this thread. And I didn't see it on some show on TV, or hear it from some guy, I studied it in an astrophysics course (among other things).

[LBJefferies]

I am pretty sure that the commonly held scientific view is that space is actually curved.

[Hallen]

I'm not disputing that. I was just pointing out that when someone says something like "the universe is infinite", it becomes very obvious that they don't know what they are talking about and they are likely regurgitating something they saw someone write about astronomy on a car forum or some other place filled with idiots.

You have to back up your arguments with a few theories or facts if you want to be effective. Just calling everybody else stupid because you think you know better, isn't very worthwhile.

In a 2d space, Earth is infinite. You can keep going around it forever. In a 3d space, it's obviously finite. So, to an extent, it depends on your perspective, doesn't it? Or are you referring to dimensional membranes that all the universes are bound by (in theory)?

Also, is the universe just the portion that is occupied by stuff (the results of the big bang)? Or is it everything beyond that as well? Is there anything beyond the stuff that exists today? What is the definition of universe? To most of us, it is everything inclusive of the area filled with stuff and the area without. Your definition seems to include only the area filled with stuff that is expanding and therefore finite. But what is it expanding into??

I love the Science channel. :)

[E30Kaiser]

I'm not disputing that. I was just pointing out that when someone says something like "the universe is infinite", it becomes very obvious that they don't know what they are talking about and they are likely regurgitating something they saw someone write about astronomy on a car forum or some other place filled with idiots.

The way the universe is expanding though is very hard to conceptualize though, to merely say it is expanding is just as much to regurgitate something you heard on tv or something. It isn't like you can see the edge slowly but surely moving off into oblivion. It is so hard to visualize the expansion because it is more like the space between objects is increasing more so than the universe is expanding like ripples from the impact of a stone in a pond.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Dammit.

[kronus]

I was making a funny about Armchair Quarterbacks before the Super Bowl starts. It was a joke.

Before the what starts?

[Farbin Kaiber]

I have no idea what you're talking about.

I was making a funny about Armchair Quarterbacks before the Super Bowl starts. It was a joke.

[TwoJ's]

It is finite but still unfathomably large. So large in fact that the odds of there being other inhabitable planets and intelligent beings are actually very good.

I'm not disputing that. I was just pointing out that when someone says something like "the universe is infinite", it becomes very obvious that they don't know what they are talking about and they are likely regurgitating something they saw someone write about astronomy on a car forum or some other place filled with idiots.

[payney8]

yeah i agree with team9 Humanity will not survive another 1000 years in the rate of growth we have at the moment, i also agree with schwarz that we really are simple minded beings with our heads so far up our asses we believe everything was created for us and if we do as the big man says we will live forever in our own perfect world.

[team9]

Time travel may be possible, but we as the human race weren't around long enough because we killed ourselves and planet earth with global warming.....hippies of the world unite!

[DatUtahGuy]

Everything is relative, the universe seems "infinite" to us because we are like a speck in the grand scheme of things, same way an ant would view our planet as infinite.

[///e30freak]

I wish I was an alien...