The job market is really pissing me off.

[Schnitzer318is]

So Americans deserved to die for what our Government has done by saying they shouldn't commit mass-genocide?

What? Oh, if you are saying innocent people died... then I completely agree but I don't follow the rest of your question. The "war on terror" should have never happened. We played with fire messing with the middle east for decades and we got burned.

Because as soon as you say, "Hey, we're going to give xyz class a huge tax break because we feel they are shouldering the burden and tax xyz class because they can afford it" everyone and anyone will be trying to get into the tax break bracket.

Again, I disagree. Even with higher taxes, the rich will never want to make less money just to avoid taxes. History has shown that even with ridiculous taxes the rich stayed rich.

Yonder current Government hasn't increased taxes to pay off the previous debt or even start making headway on their own. They have spent and started entitlement programs in huuuuge degree's.

I couldn't agree with you more here. They're spending just as hard as the previous administration... which is fool hardy. Bailouts sucked but hell most of the fed was straight out of Goldman Sachs. The "entitlement" programs better actually end of saving money as they say it will (health care) or it will cost the dems the oval office and most of the seats they hold in Congress.

But I've always been a proponent of non trying the same old thing. The definition of stupidity: trying the same thing and expecting a different result. I'll definitely hold off judging this admin. til I see some results, positive or negative.

[ck_taft325is]

I disagree here. Reason being, tax cuts only really help the upper middle class and up. A tax cut for the poor, lower middle, and middle classes won't free up much money for them at all. Which is unfortunate because those are the people with most of the purchasing power... just through sheer numbers. There are far fewer upper middle and wealthier class members.

You are correct in saying that there is no guarantee that if taxes were raised the government would use all that extra revenue to pay down the debt. But my assertion was based on the fact that they did. The fastest way for the debt to come down would be to raise taxes AND cut spending.

Oh ya... and for F*CKS sake end the war that is costing us millions by the hour!



They aren't attacking us for no reason. We have been interfering with their part of the world for the better part of a century. And before us the Brits were. LOL we are still telling them how they should govern themselves.



OK, sorry... I meant 70's and 80's. Nice catch though, I was so far off.



I already said that. They can't afford to shoulder the burden of high taxes or you kill their standard of living. The upper classes can afford the higher taxes and still maintain their SOL.

So Americans deserved to die for what our Government has done by saying they shouldn't commit mass-genocide?

And you want to raise taxes on the "wealthy" because "they can afford it" so as to save the middle class which, any smart business man or company with ANY longevity will pass onto the lower-middle classes? Sorry, but as people have pointed out, regardless of your opinions on Reagan he brought in more revenue for the Government while giving everyone a tax break. Everyone. Not just the "middle" class. Because as soon as you say, "Hey, we're going to give xyz class a huge tax break because we feel they are shouldering the burden and tax xyz class because they can afford it" everyone and anyone will be trying to get into the tax break bracket. That and it doesn't work.

Yonder current Government hasn't increased taxes to pay off the previous debt or even start making headway on their own. They have spent and started entitlement programs in huuuuge degree's.

[StereoInstaller1]

Speak for yourself... you might not qualified along with people like Schnitzer318is but some of us are educated and informed about issues, and having an open forum for discussion is a plus.

And how else will the liberal PNW people learn about supply-side? It's not like the Laffer curve is written on their oatmeal bars.

I am pretty sure you have dust in your head living in that big old dustbowl midwest...but WTF, if you know so much, why aren't you working as SOMETHING involved in politics?

hell, you could be the next Monica Lewinsky....

MODS. CAN WE DRAG THIS THREAD TO HELL PLEASE!

FAILING THAT, HOW ABOUT THE POLITICS SUBFORUM?

[Schnitzer318is]

lower taxes stimulate the economy and help facilitate growth. greater growth = more dollars that are taxable even at a lower rate.

I disagree here. Reason being, tax cuts only really help the upper middle class and up. A tax cut for the poor, lower middle, and middle classes won't free up much money for them at all. Which is unfortunate because those are the people with most of the purchasing power... just through sheer numbers. There are far fewer upper middle and wealthier class members.

You are correct in saying that there is no guarantee that if taxes were raised the government would use all that extra revenue to pay down the debt. But my assertion was based on the fact that they did. The fastest way for the debt to come down would be to raise taxes AND cut spending.

Oh ya... and for F*CKS sake end the war that is costing us millions by the hour!

but would work as a great detterent from attacking the us for no reason. im sure some towelhead would be stupid enough to though, soon as we erased his people as a whole for fucking with us, other nations/bad seeds would get the point.

They aren't attacking us for no reason. We have been interfering with their part of the world for the better part of a century. And before us the Brits were. LOL we are still telling them how they should govern themselves.

Ummm... Reagan was elected in 1980. Jimmy Carter was fucking up the country with stagflation in the 1970s. It at least explains why you like high taxes because you are so ignorant.

OK, sorry... I meant 70's and 80's. Nice catch though, I was so far off.

And the middle class hardly pay any of the tax burden compared to the upper brackets.

I already said that. They can't afford to shoulder the burden of high taxes or you kill their standard of living. The upper classes can afford the higher taxes and still maintain their SOL.

[rwh11385]

All I know is after reading this retarded thread I have made my mind up about 2 things:

1. You guys are idiots, all of you. Taxes will not make or break anything. Cost of goods reflect tax burdens, as they have all through history, raising profits through higher total cost...so the same profit margin allows higher profit, just as it has all through the ages.

2. A political subforum is the worst idea ever on this board. None of us are qualified to have discussions on this topic and all political bullshit needs to be eliminated from this forum...all of it.

I swear, anytime things are shitty the best thing to invest in is aluminum, so you fucking fags can make all the damn hats you want (make them strong to protect you from that mean old falling sky, too!).

Lower tax rates or credits do encourage behavior. I was motivated to invest more when dividend tax rates were changed. And I'd feel more excited to earn additional money if I kept more of it instead of it just going to the guvment.


And it at least declutters the rest of OT. Speak for yourself... you might not qualified along with people like Schnitzer318is but some of us are educated and informed about issues, and having an open forum for discussion is a plus.

And how else will the liberal PNW people learn about supply-side? It's not like the Laffer curve is written on their oatmeal bars.

[rwh11385]

^This country NEEDS more taxes to pay for it's ludicrous debt, wars, and programs. Which is fine by me...

Tax brackets on the rich used to be 90+% back in the 40's,50's, and then starting slowly coming down. They still lived like kings though. Their quality of living was still the same. Then in the 70's those upper tax brackets % came down CRAZY (thanks Reagan!). The country went from having a huge middle class and great quality of living to what we have today.

And that is the problem with the country. Everyone wants as big a piece of every pie out there for themselves. Everyone wants to live in this great country but NO ONE wants to pay for it. The rich want to keep ALL their money and have the middle class shoulder more of the tax burden. You can NOT sap the middle class or you will kill your economy. The rich need to start taking up more of the tax burden as they had in the past when we had great quality of living.

Here is a case in point. I was discussing with an acquaintance (not rich but definitely well off) about the economy and he was complaining about paying taxes (he's in a 30 something % bracket. This means he made about $150,000 last year and paid something like $30,000. I had to restrain myself, my wife and I made just shy of $50,000 last year and got a $700 refund. I would give my left nut to be in his tax bracket. LOL ya, I would be paying 30,500 more in taxes, but I'd be netting 70,000 more in income!

Ummm... Reagan was elected in 1980. Jimmy Carter was fucking up the country with stagflation in the 1970s. It at least explains why you like high taxes because you are so ignorant.

And the middle class hardly pay any of the tax burden compared to the upper brackets.

Then Ronald Reagan slashed it to 50 percent and ultimately to 28 percent after the 1986 Tax Reform Act. Although the federal tax rate fell by more than half, total tax receipts in the 1980s doubled from $517 billion in 1981 to $1,030 billion in 1990. The top tax rate rose slightly under George H. W. Bush and then moved to 39.6 percent under Bill Clinton. But under George W. Bush it fell again to 35 percent. So what’s striking is that, even as tax rates have fallen by half over the past quarter-century, taxes paid by the wealthy have increased. Lower tax rates have made the tax system more progressive, not less so. In 1980, for example, the top 5 percent of income earners paid only 37 percent of all income taxes. Today, the top 1 percent pay that proportion, and the top 5 percent pay a whopping 57 percent.

[Hallen]

All I know is after reading this retarded thread I have made my mind up about 2 things:

1. You guys are idiots, all of you. Taxes will not make or break anything. Cost of goods reflect tax burdens, as they have all through history, raising profits through higher total cost...so the same profit margin allows higher profit, just as it has all through the ages.

yes, we are all idiots. But we're cute idiots.

No, actually, cost of goods only reflects the cost of the components of a product. There is some tax in the cost of those items depending on the elasticity of prices for those components, but not the entire tax. That comes off the net amount later.

Prices can be both elastic and inelastic. Elastic prices are ones in which the buyer is willing to pay more because there is a perceived benefit. Crack is this way.

Inelastic prices are ones in which the customer will only pay amounts within a very narrow price range. Because of competitive pressures, those prices will remain at the bottom edge of the price spectrum. Sugar, toothpaste, other commodities and basic consumables, as well as bargain automobiles are this way. In order to make the same profit, the manufacturer must lower costs if taxes are raised because they can't raise their prices or they risk losing all their business. So, they lay off workers, or decrease pay, or reduce benefits, or shut down plants and move them to China, etc.

You'll find that in many cases, you can absorb some of the tax increases in your pricing, but not all of it. You'll still have to make other cuts.

And even if you can put all of the tax increase into your pricing, people are still going to buy less overall because it is too expensive. Wages don't go up with tax increases, the net wage will go down because of more taxes. Only demand for qualified workers will drive up the price of labor. We've just shown that tax increases will most likely cause a surplus of workers because of layoffs and other factors. So, people won't be able to buy as much stuff, which means corporate earnings will go down, which means tax intakes will go down.

2. A political subforum is the worst idea ever on this board. None of us are qualified to have discussions on this topic and all political bullshit needs to be eliminated from this forum...all of it.

I swear, anytime things are shitty the best thing to invest in is aluminum, so you fucking fags can make all the damn hats you want (make them strong to protect you from that mean old falling sky, too!).

Not really. Then only people interested in having a political discussion will pay attention. We won't have to listen to people who get trapped in a political thread whine and bitch when they can't find their way back out again. In other words, it's really easy to avoid these threads. Just like me avoiding that inane MMA thread.

Oh, and we are ALL qualified to have a discussion, even Kronos. Some may not know what they are talking about, but they can still discuss it. There's no reason to go all random nutso if you can't prove to the interwebs that you're right.

[kronus]

fuckin slow day at work again.

also testing new sig lol

please leave

[bimmer_E30]

fuckin slow day at work again.

also testing new sig lol

[HarryPotter]

Tin foil gets the job done.

[ck_taft325is]

You should start a Poll with Lee.

[StereoInstaller1]

All I know is after reading this retarded thread I have made my mind up about 2 things:

1. You guys are idiots, all of you. Taxes will not make or break anything. Cost of goods reflect tax burdens, as they have all through history, raising profits through higher total cost...so the same profit margin allows higher profit, just as it has all through the ages.

2. A political subforum is the worst idea ever on this board. None of us are qualified to have discussions on this topic and all political bullshit needs to be eliminated from this forum...all of it.

I swear, anytime things are shitty the best thing to invest in is aluminum, so you fucking fags can make all the damn hats you want (make them strong to protect you from that mean old falling sky, too!).

[Jean]

and we are off topic in the off topic thread haha.

[kronus]

but would work as a great detterent from attacking the us for no reason. im sure some towelhead would be stupid enough to though, soon as we erased his people as a whole for fucking with us, other nations/bad seeds would get the point.

Do you still believe that they "hate us for our freedom"?

[Farbin Kaiber]

Or the almighty god we tout as on our side will smite us.