Aviation Colleges

[Steven]

Old thread, but I thought I'd update as college apps are coming up.

I went and visited riddle and all I have to say is wow. Also, the counsellor informed me that financial aid is big and I should be able to graduate riddle with minimal debt. But I'll find out how much aid I can get if I get accepted.

Needless to say I was very impressed with riddle. But I still need to visit ATP to see where that stands in comparison. Meanwhile, I've applied to San Jose state as a backup,because they have a flight program there too.
The other thing that is very nice about riddle is Ivan experience the ROTC program for two years with no commitment. And they also have a very good flying club which would give me a good amount of hours along with the flight training I can do though them.

Overall I still don't fully know which path is right for me, but I should be soloing Friday so that's pretty exciting.

[flyboyx]

I'm looking into ATP fight school.... Wow.... I could be flying with a regional airline in 18 months...

yes, this is what i was saying about what i was saying when i was saying it. they feed it to you like it is coming out of a fire hose. however, if you bear down and blast through, it is by far the quickest way. as i mentioned, if it were me, i would throw my money here before i would at riddle. remember that the new atp rules may prohibit you from getting a regional job until you are old enough to qualify for an atp. however, you can still work in the industry and make money flying until you reach that age. sure beats the hell out of working at mcdonnalds.

while you are in flight training at a pilot mill like all atp's, you will have time for pretty much nothing else. however, just don't forget about college. take classes as you can and keep working toward your goal.



there have been several posts about military flying/ air force academy in this thread. i think that would be a fantastic opportunity, however, it has been somewhat made to sound like those type of jobs are flying out of obama's butt to all that might be interested. i know that things have changed a lot since i was of that age, but i really doubt this to be the case. not to say that you aren't qualified steven, but military flying opportunities are probably very competitive and difficult to come by. i am pretty confident that they still don't give those out to every little snot nose that drops by the recruiter's office after watching "top gun". this being said, those of you that are flying in the military, my hat is off to you. thank you for serving no matter what your motives for doing so. i can't say i know what it takes because i have never been through it. however, i know it isn't easy. good for you guys for having what it takes to make it through successfully.

there is a guy on this forum that actually only lives a couple miles from me who flew hariers in the marines. i can't even tell you how difficult it is to have such an achievement under your belt. that is perhaps the most difficult flying job to attain other than maybe air force 1 or shuttle pilot. only the best of the best of the best get to fly that airplane. it is probably easier to be a blue angel.

[tttoon]

Always remember, flight schools are there to make money. Read the small print! Make sure you can pay off your debt with what you make at that regional.

[Steven]

I'm looking into ATP fight school.... Wow.... I could be flying with a regional airline in 18 months...

[tttoon]

If meet the medical requirements, I would definitely do Military. I did it the civilian way because of my eyes (Air Force in my country requires perfect uncorrected vision), and it cost me a bunch. Plus you never really learn to fly. You'll be thinking what if I tried every time you see a fast jet for the rest of your life.

I'd say an aviation degree is probably not the best, since it doesn't give you many more options. I would do something in engineering if I had to do it all over again.

To summarise, for the civilian track, count on:

-finishing training with $100-200k debt
-flying as a CFI for 2 years to get 1500 hours (may include working 7/7 for next to nothing, risking your life with students with minimal ability)
-flying for a regional making less than that
-maybe, 10 years down the road, make it into the majors.

For the military, you do a lot less hours, but if those are fast jet hours, you'll be golden for most companies. Especially corporate aviation loves to pay big bucks for ex-mil jocks.

Plus, dude, aerial refuelling? Carrier landings? Goddamn afterburners? Compare that to the average airliner: AP on at 300 feet, off at 300 feet before landing. Bitching from the back. Ever reducing terms.

[Steven]

good luck, its a fun industry to be involved in! youre also entering at a decent time, as there is a fairly large pilot shortage forecasted for the next several years, you should be catching things on a hiring "upswing"

I absolutely love flying. I don't mind at all the bad things that come with it and I am a very patient person. I'm very excited to have opportunity to peruse this career and do something go absolutely love.

[thearkitekt]

i have to say that i have flown with lots of guys from that particular school. generally speaking they are arrogant douche bags. seriously. it is generally known that pilots entering the industry from that school seem to have a general tendency to suffer from this affliction. i don't know what the hell is the problem down there, but i swear this is true. you can bet that the people that do the hiring at airlines know this too. you can draw your own conclusions from that statement.

Dear fucking god is this true, I'll expand on that and add that they feel entitled to the left seat in 3, maybe 4 days on the job. Also, related

if your goal is indeed to be employed by a regional after college, i still don't recommend getting a degree in aviation.

Now, if you want to get into the private side of the industry (private/corporate jets) the path is pretty much the same. a 4 year degree isnt as important here, but by the time you work your way up to these positions, my guess is it will be. The only thing that will change is you will need the full 1500 hour ATP, as of right now I think the ATP-e only works in the airlines. Again, this can, and probably will change. Still a 141 school is the best way to go, saves you ~50 flight hours on getting a commercial rating, and with flight time averaging $175/hr, the math comes to about $8700 cheaper then getting a commercial certificate with a local CFI part 91.

Now real basic career advice...

-you better be ok with being away from home for long periods of time, having a gf/wife thats ok with this is vital. mine is, and it helps a lot!

-patience is key, if youre impatient, this may not be the career path for you. the industry has lots of changes, sometimes not always for the best, you have to ride through it.

-its a job that involves a lot of waiting (charter/private). if you dont like waiting on people, youll hate this side of the industry. ive had passengers be 3-4 hours late before, annoying, but it happens.

-MATH. i cant stress this enough.

-mechanical skill. while not vital, it helps a lot. assuming youre on this board, youve probably turned a wrench before, understand basic mechanical systems, etc. this will help a lot from training through retirement.

good luck, its a fun industry to be involved in! youre also entering at a decent time, as there is a fairly large pilot shortage forecasted for the next several years, you should be catching things on a hiring "upswing"

[phreshkid]

AFAIK there is a Embry Riddle campus in Daytona Beach, FL...that might be mo' betta!

North Shore reference?

[Steven]

My biggest regret in my AF career was jacking off in my 20's and not getting school done to become a officer/pilot. If I could rewind 10 years, I'd try to get into the academy, and do ROTC as a backup.

To me, it is ludicrous to fork over that kind of cash to riddle to then fly for peanuts on the regionals. My brother-in-law is finally making decent money after surviving on his wifes teachers salary for 7-8 years as he built up hours flying for air winsconsin... now he just has to pay back hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loan debt.

I recently heard that when a cadet graduates the academy, his education is worth nearly $500,000. The cadet pays none of that and only has to serve a time requirement in the service.





In your young life, have you ever walked into a bad decision almost knowing before hand that it will end badly? I'd foreshadow that your trip to ERAU will get you hyped up, and sucked in. In 6 years you'll be wishing you hadn't.

This is good input... But I'm not sure what you're getting at....what is your advice?

[Eric]

My biggest regret in my AF career was jacking off in my 20's and not getting school done to become a officer/pilot. If I could rewind 10 years, I'd try to get into the academy, and do ROTC as a backup.

To me, it is ludicrous to fork over that kind of cash to riddle to then fly for peanuts on the regionals. My brother-in-law is finally making decent money after surviving on his wifes teachers salary for 7-8 years as he built up hours flying for air winsconsin... now he just has to pay back hundreds of thousands of dollars of student loan debt.

I recently heard that when a cadet graduates the academy, his education is worth nearly $500,000. The cadet pays none of that and only has to serve a time requirement in the service.





In your young life, have you ever walked into a bad decision almost knowing before hand that it will end badly? I'd foreshadow that your trip to ERAU will get you hyped up, and sucked in. In 6 years you'll be wishing you hadn't.

[Steven]

Yeah there's a lot to think about. Like I've said I'm heading over to embry in two weeks to check out the campus. Also looking into ATP flight school, and I'll look into the Air Force academy tonight. I should have my private license done before college so that should help a lot with many of the program's I'm looking into... But for me if anyone has anything else to input it'd be greatly appreciated. Everything is still a possibility.

[bimmerboy08]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned this yet, but have you thought of the Air Force Academy? That is my alma mater; I graduated in 2008. I wasn't medically qualified for pilot so I became a navigator.

On the way to our graduation ceremony, they were announcing that they still had pilot slots left, and that if anyone wanted them to come to the registrar's office after graduation and get one. If you get in, survive the place without getting in too much trouble, and are medically qualified, there is a high chance you will get a pilot slot.

As far as hours goes, it all depends on what you fly. As a nav I got over 1,000 hours within the first two years of being mission qualified. I fly on a heavy reconnaissance aircraft. Shoot me a PM if you have any other questions.

Edit: I forgot to mention, it's free to go there. You actually get paid too.

[FLYNAVY]

FWIW, everyone that completes ROTC also ends up with a 4 year degree. It is something you do in conjunction with being in normal college......you will have ROTC specific classes, extra curricular activities related to ROTC, but otherwise you are a college student. Just thought that was worth clearing up. It is completely separate and unrelated to JROTC, which is basically just a high school level extracurricular activity that doesn't have anything to do with the actual military.

After getting my commercial/IR after high school through a local 2 year part 141 school, I shopped around a bit like you are, and visited ERAU as well. In the end, I decided to go to a regular university, do engineering, and do NROTC. Got my BS, got my commission, and got orders to Navy flight training. Now 11 years after that decision, I'd say it all worked out for the best. Rather than being 100 billion dollars in debt and working as a CFI or maybe a regional FO or something for pennies on the dollar, I get a really good paycheck, have no debt from school or anything else, get to do cool stuff, and get to fly God's Chariot. Obviously there are downsides to military service, and flying for the military (long hours, years of training and a career of studying, lots of time away from home, etc).....it isn't for everyone......but if you feel inclined, I'd highly recommend it.

You won't make as many hours as quickly in the military (unless you fly AF heavies or something) as you would being a commercial pilot, but that is also understood and accounted for in the aviation business in terms of follow on civilian flying opportunities. For reference, I've been flying for the Navy for a little under 6 years, and I will hit the 1000 hr mark probably sometime in the next 30 days. That is probably significantly less than guys flying civilian jobs for the same amount of time. That said, that also puts me above the mins for a restricted ATP, and close to the 1500 hr mark for a normal ATP probably relatively soon, and well before I have the opportunity to go fly in a civilian job. If you end up liking flying for the military (which I do), I'd venture as far as to say that it is a much less painful (financially and otherwise) way to get your foot in the door for an aviation career. If you do it purely as a means to get ahead, I would say that it would be equally if not more painful than working your way up as a civilian pilot.

[Steven]

Well I'm flying out to embry riddle october the 4th, so I can pass my own judgement on it then... I can get my licenses trough my current instructor, but I also like the idea of being in a school where everyone around you wants the same thing and is pushing you to be better than each other.

However yes, the prepuce is unbearably high, and I will be in a lot of debt at the end of it. But I also think that I would have more connections through them and possibilities of internships through embry...

UND is still in the running as is San Jose state and my current flight instructor. I want to get a degree in some kind of business, and I can also get that through embry.

The real problem is everyone has a different opinion on what is the best way to go about this.

[318kid]

To add to flyboyx's post, I believe his times are correct for the new ATP ratings, but in addition you have to be 23 as well. There are a few lower cost alternatives to a flying university such as a 141 school, the military, or possibly finding a pilot who instructs on the side, but it all depends on how fast you want to get your ratings and the support that you have for your career. The quicker you can get to a CFI the quicker you can build time without spending much more money, however you will need at least 250 hours for a Commercial Pilots license in a part 61 training scenario and 190 for your commercial license in a part 141 school.
I'm currently pursuing my aviation career, but I am working for my ratings on the side while attending college full time as a finance major. I know a friend who graduated from KState with a professional pilots degree, and he seemed to like it, but for me I like having an unrelated major just in case. Seniority is everything in Airlines however, so stay clean and the quicker you can get the time needed the more marketable you are.

As a side note, you don't necessarily have to become a CFI to build time for your ATP mins, however I feel it is the best option since you would be a teacher, and all the things you learned would be reinforced everyday. There are other jobs such as banner tow, crop dusting, ferrying, or carrying sky divers but these jobs are all very hard to come by as opposed to a flight instructor (in most instances).

Regionals will want to see at least 200 hours of multi-time for hiring included with ATP minimums but I've heard some pilots being hired with 50-100. Majors will want 1000 hours turbine time (preferably PIC). Those seem to be the competitive minimums for now.