Alternative Energies: Different kinds and a few thoughts

[uofom3]

Bumped since another thread has turned to energy

[Rigmaster]

Good thread.

While I didn't read every word of every post, I did scan over all of them. One thing that was mentioned that I don't understand is the comment about Geothermal possibly NOT being renewable....(???). You evidently don't have a good concept of Geothermal energy.

We recently built a new house on the wife's family farm- it sits in the middle of a cow pasture. We didn't have an assload of $$$ to spend on it, but we had a good chunk of $$ from the sale of our previous house, and we were bound and determined to build something that would be reasonably energy efficient yet cost effective. In other words, we were willing to pay a bit more for energy efficiency IF it could be shown to pay off in a reasonable amount of time.

I did a TON of research on Geothermal heat pumps (aka Ground Source Heat pumps), and I REALLY wanted to use one on this house, but it was just not financially feasible. The quotes I got for a Geothermal system were 3-4 times the cost of an efficient electric heat pump system. I was willing to go 1.5 or maybe 2x the cost, but no way could I justify 3-4x the cost. I even thought about doing alot of the work myself (the "closed loop" system I was going to use required a bunch of trenches to be dug to accomodate the plastic pipes through which water circulates to facilitate the transfer of heat to or from the earth- I have access to a backhoe and could do this myself)- but the cost savings was just not there.

I think a big part of the problem is that there are just not many contractors that are doing Geothermal, and those that are doing it can charge whatever they want evidently. I think that as this type of system becomes more popular, costs will come down and maybe when the current system dies (or electricity costs get to be too high), I'll convert.

But, saying that geothermal is not renewable is like saying that the center of the earth is going to freeze over, same thing..... ;)



Bret

[madjurgen]

I think your research on solar is really lacking and youre way too quick to dismiss it.

Give this a complete read for starters:

http://teslafounders.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/solar-synergy/

Changing the building codes for new houses and adding a few hundred dollars to the purchase cost would make adding a complete solar system that can power the entire house a rather cheap upgrade.

Like was mentioned before, why the rooftop of every office building isnt covered by panels is beyond me. The owners/leasees of these buildings spend millions every year on electricity. The million or two it would cost to fit these systems would be paid for fairly quickly I would think.

[z31maniac]

Not to be off-topic of different sources, I don't know if this has been covered, but why can't gas stations compete in price? If Gas Station A sells gas for $3/gal. where Gas Station B stays at $4/gal. , I would think Gas Station A would make more profit because more cars would purchase gas there.

But I believe we should heavily fund alternative energy and try to ease off oil as much as possible.

:drink:

Yeah, because when wholesale cost is $3.50/gal selling at $3/gal makes money.:crazy:

[threlevenguy]

Not to be off-topic of different sources, I don't know if this has been covered, but why can't gas stations compete in price? If Gas Station A sells gas for $3/gal. where Gas Station B stays at $4/gal. , I would think Gas Station A would make more profit because more cars would purchase gas there.

But I believe we should heavily fund alternative energy and try to ease off oil as much as possible.

[Hallen]

yeah, but its not enough. suv sales are still moderate. and hummers are still available for sale.



take the bus then, ride a bike. HEY fix the obesity problem in america at the same time, ride a bike to work, school!!!

Yeah, that isn't a bad thing really.

But taxing to modify behaviour really ain't a great way to go. We already pay enough in tax and people that use more gas, pay more tax already. When you start singling out groups of people for "special" taxes, it just gives the government more ways to screw you.

Oil is still cheap relatively speaking and it does have a huge head start over other energy sources. You can't charge more for electricity created by a nuke plant compared to electricity created by a coal plant. That is why we have so many coal plants. Should we go nuke and use other energy sources? Absolutely. We shouldn't smoke or drink or drive fast either. In order for any of this to happen there needs to be either some real grass roots movements that forces the changes, or there needs to be an economic reason to do it... one not created by artificial government taxes or subsidies.

[BeirBrennerE30]

Dont tax my suv... i pay way more than my share of taxes already plus there is already a lux. tax on cars in Mass.

However I am 100% behind drilling anywhere and everywhere we can. Drill in my back yard for all i care as long as it lowers gas prices. However, I am also behind building nuclear plants quickly as well as increasing solar/wind/hydro to assist the nuclear plants.

also quick ay to lower gas prices. Force speculators to take delivery of commodity they purchase. it has been done before and it will stabilize the market. Gas prices would fall 10-25% with out rampant speculation.

[JasonC]

yeah, but its not enough. suv sales are still moderate. and hummers are still available for sale.



take the bus then, ride a bike. HEY fix the obesity problem in america at the same time, ride a bike to work, school!!!

So because people are buying stuff they like, we should make it so they can't?

For the public transportation systems, not everyone has that at their disposal cause of the location that they live in.

[smonkbmw]

You have a point but I don't think that the tax on the big cars is needed, they are taking it in the shorts every time they pull up to the pump.

yeah, but its not enough. suv sales are still moderate. and hummers are still available for sale.

You can't really tax the untuned cars because they are generally operated by people who don't have the money to maintain them. So taxing those people will only have more impact on the economy that is negative; not create many net benefits.

take the bus then, ride a bike. HEY fix the obesity problem in america at the same time, ride a bike to work, school!!!

[SpecM]

A nuclear reactor cannot physically explode.

-this is true, they makeup of a reactor and a bomb are very different.

[CorvallisBMW]

The euro is so strong against the dollar that there are merchants in many major US cities that are accepting it. The last time I was in NYC I was shocked to find out that there were resturants and coffee shops in midtown manhattan that had 2 prices lists depending on the currency that you wanted to use.

That may have more to do with tourists than the exchange rate.

[2Big4a3Series]

The euro is so strong against the dollar that there are merchants in many major US cities that are accepting it. The last time I was in NYC I was shocked to find out that there were resturants and coffee shops in midtown manhattan that had 2 prices lists depending on the currency that you wanted to use.

[trashcop 80s 80s]

If the US dollar was not so inflated, then fuel prices would not seem as high. If the US $ was equal to one Euro, as in 2002, then we would currently pay an average price of $2.55 a gallon. An econ professor at school said he would not doubt if the world economy goes to pricing barrels of oil in Euros, since the inflated US dollar is going to shit. The Euro now has the highest combined cash value of all currencies, with ~500M people using it.

[smonkbmw]

what is the rule in japan? i cant remember exactly but i think theres some sort of law that cars after a certain mileage are taxed more than new cars? i think this would make a good impact here. it definitely would inspire more public transportation if not more bicycling.

[uofom3]

Yeah..that's because fuel products are paying for the elevated price of oil. The byproducts like the varnishes, laquers, paints, plastics, lubricants, etc are generally the same price.



That would ideal in a perfect world but I believe that people who don't maintain their cars can't afford it. And if they have a few bucks, they aren't willing to break their budget unless the car breaks down. They are having a hard enough keeping the needle off of "E" (or the "R") living one paycheck to the next. I seriously doubt that the average minimum wage earner wants to spend a week's salary for a few extra MPG at the pump let alone a month's salary for a new catalytic converter.

And don't get me wrong. It makes sense to make an investment in the health of your car in order for it to remain dependable even if fuel economy wasn't an issue. But not everyone has the luxury of doing a complete tuneup or buying a new cat.

You are completely correct here... i guess I was speaking in more hypothetical terms. People in those positions will certainly not go down that path twoards total automobile efficiency.