A dem's view of the welfare system=rant.

[Vedubin01]

Navy great read man! Thanks for sharing!

[Ral]

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes
to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it
would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day
and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw
them a curve. 'Since you are all such good customers, he said, 'I'm going to
reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20. Drinks for the ten now cost just
$80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first
four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But
what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide
the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his 'fair share?'
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that
from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end
up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would
be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he
proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before And the first four continued to
drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to
compare their savings.

'I only got a dollar out of the $20', declared the sixth man. He pointed to
the tenth man,' but he got $10!'

'Yeah, that's right', exclaimed the fifth man. 'I only saved a dollar, too.
It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!'


'That's true!!' shouted the seventh man. 'Why should he get $10 back when I
got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!'

'Wait a minute,' yelled the first four men in unison. 'We didn't get anything
at all. The system exploits the poor!'

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down
and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they
discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of
them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax
system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from
a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they
just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas
where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics, University of Georgia

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

[2Big4a3Series]

I've been to that point of frustration too.. I remember once when I was down to my last $20 trying to get enough food until payday. The couple in front of me had steaks, and seafood, and all kinds of expensive things.. and I didn't think anything of it until they pulled out their book of food stamps!

Part of the problem is that the people who work in the government are just as lazy as the people who take the handouts. As long as the government workers get their paycheck every week, they aren't going to spend the time, effort, or trouble to determine whether or not a recipient has a legitmate claim. The only way that the government workers can't get away with pushing everyone through the system is when there is documentable proof that a recipient is making "enough" money.

As long as you are making money under the table, nobody is going to care. But as soon as you get a real job and contribute to the Social Security tax, a flag goes up in their system and they HAVE to deny you in order to keep their jobs. But otherwise if it's easier to qualify a recipient than it is to deny them, you can guess what happens.

[chrisesteschiro]

I think we should cut out all those programs and let the government take care of roads, laws, and civil defence. If people need a helping hand, there are churches on every corner. This might not work in all circumstances but people would not go hungry. 4/5 people that use the system abuse the system. Same with disability. I know people who work their asses off at home but get disablility. There are so many people that once they get in they quit for good and never go back to work that the people who need it have a hard time getting it.

[apexede30]

My angry addition to this topic. I hate EBT. I hate it because I work management at a grocery store, and the people coming in and using EBT have often been driving lexuses, buying meats, crab legs, lobster, things I can only dream to have regularly. So basically they make my money, live comfortably, then get 300 dollars a month FREE because they think the government owes em somethin or what?

[Joey Link]

It's the same way with just about any socialist program, be it welfare, education, or medicare/medicaid. They always want to throw more money at the problem and hope it goes away. Too little money is always the reason socialist programs are ineffective, according to them. It doesn't matter that people who don't need welfare are able to scam the system, that we pay $10k/yr per student here in Oregon for education (Yes, that's right, $350k for a classroom of 35 students for ONE YEAR), or that medicare/medicaid loses 30% of it's budget to fraud yearly.

[uofom3]

People who NEED help should get it. I don't begrudge or judge people who are seriously hurting financially and need help getting back on their feet. As Hallen mentioned, it's good for society to help some of these people out in what it offsets taking place (crime particularly).

People who don't NEED to help shouldn't ever take it. I heard a guy call in on a local talk show during a conversation on this topic. The guy said he is worth millions of dollars and somehow found a loophole in the system to where he gets a whole bunch of money from different government programs and basically saves his interest on his investments and lives off what the government gives him. He did it just to prove a point. He then went and tried to stop the payments and they still keep comming AFTER he signed the stuff to get them to stop.

Welfare systems never work as intended. There needs to be serious reform.

[peerless]

I knew a Korean family that owned a liquor store in LB, CA. When the poor and mostly lazy people would come in and want to buy booze but only had food stamps, the Koreans would buy the food stamps for less then half the face value.

These people would give up $40 in food stamps for a 12pk of beer. The Koreans would then go to the local Korean market and buy all their food with the food stamps.

What a clever way to feed your family eh?

Welfare generally breeds laziness, it needs to be abolished or severely re-written. Its a system thats way to easy to abuse. Luckily some of us still have that old school honor and would rather suffer a little in exchange for the right to say we made it 100% on our own with out the states handouts.

[z31maniac]

Worked at a conveince store on the rough side of Tulsa for over 2 years.

Drug dealers galore with food stamps. Same story driving nice cars, big wheels, systems, wearing suits and shit. Use food stamps to buy fucking cheetos and pop, and pull out HUGE wads of cash to buy Swishers and Black and Milds.

[Scotaku]

Waitaminute... dems thinking only those people who -need- welfare should get it? Taxpayers buying food for the "needy" as they buy cigarettes and beer is wrong? :gasp:

Ted Kennedy will be sending someone by to take back your voter registrations.

[Hallen]

LOL, that is a good story. Good on you for laying it on her.

When I was a lot younger, and we had our first child way before we were ready both emotionally and economically, my wife used to get this thing called WIC. It allowed us to buy formula and other baby food items. It did help stretch our budget a lot. We both worked and were going to school full time. It wasn't easy at all. My parents helped where they could too. We were lucky that way.

But I hated that WIC thing with a passion. She couldn't understand why I wouldn't ever use the vouchers. If she wanted to use them, I let her, but I would never do it. Call it pride or whatever. We were very tight on money, for sure, but we could have gotten by. She didn't think anything of it... why not take free money? It isn't free, it never will be. We all pay for it in taxes and it destroys your pride and your sense of self worth. Nothing is more satisfying than taking care of your family all by yourself.

I don't know how many times I would see women use the WIC to buy enough cold cereal to feed a family for months, and then throw a $40 bucks down on the counter to buy a carton of cigarettes or a case of beer. Ugh! So I am paying for your food so you can buy your smokes?

I do like the idea that we as a society want to help people who need help. It makes us all better in the end and makes us a stronger nation. But government programs never work properly and they never end... they just get bigger and more wasteful. All the while all government welfare does is keep raising our dependence on government to take care of us and lowering our self esteem and pride. I couldn't ever imagine my Dad accepting a handout from anybody. He wouldn't even let me apply for student aid when I went to college. He insisted on paying for it even though it was really stretching his budget. How many people can say that?

All I know is that eventually the free market and democracy will fail because we all keep voting money for ourselves. Instead, vote to keep the money you have earned for yourself. I am sure you too will then be able to take care of your family without the "help" of the government. You will also probably have enough left over to give some money to a charity that works locally that you can believe in.

One last thought: Robin Hood was a thief, no matter how you slice it. It seems our government is now Robin Hood and just like Hollywood, they have spun that as a good thing.

[StereoInstaller1]

Man I'm full of them tonight. I'm at a Dollar General store.............I see a wealthy appearing woman emptying her cart onto the register counter, but when she makes it to a bottle of fucking advil she looks at it and then covers it with her coat.....The woman at the register couldn't see........I'm generally not the snitchy type so I kept my mouth shut......But as I checked out it just irratated the living hell out of me......So I go out to my truck and there she is loading her cart into a fullsize lexus-don't know the model the big fullsize car.......So I pulled my truck over (at the time a nice duramax) while she was loading the trunk and called her on it........I said..."Maam, I find it quite interesting that you are more than able to afford a 65 thousand dollar car and a fur coat but not able to afford that bottle of advil that I just saw you steal. From a dollar store no less" After a dumb founded look for a few seconds she was pissed..........So I killed her with sarcastic kindness and disgust for a few seconds and then drove away........Good times

Best street kill story I have ever read...coming from a guy who tied a plastic bag of baby squid to some waffleswaffleswaffleswaffless catylitic converter because she pissed my daughter off.

[DSP74]

Man I'm full of them tonight. I'm at a Dollar General store.............I see a wealthy appearing woman emptying her cart onto the register counter, but when she makes it to a bottle of fucking advil she looks at it and then covers it with her coat.....The woman at the register couldn't see........I'm generally not the snitchy type so I kept my mouth shut......But as I checked out it just irratated the living hell out of me......So I go out to my truck and there she is loading her cart into a fullsize lexus-don't know the model the big fullsize car.......So I pulled my truck over (at the time a nice duramax) while she was loading the trunk and called her on it........I said..."Maam, I find it quite interesting that you are more than able to afford a 65 thousand dollar car and a fur coat but not able to afford that bottle of advil that I just saw you steal. From a dollar store no less" After a dumb founded look for a few seconds she was pissed..........So I killed her with sarcastic kindness and disgust for a few seconds and then drove away........Good times

[dinanm3atl]

Some would say, how do you think they got to the point not to have to shop there? A lot of the rich are the most stingiest/thriftiest people I have ever met.


just get there before they do, it is first come first served.

The rich don't get rich by wasting money.

[DSP74]

To clarify this is just a regular grocery store.....Kind of like a savealot or similar. Only a little nicer, and less effected by the monthly welfare check crowd-I do try not to judge but we all know what I'm talking about here.


Another story. First wife. Mother doesn't work but father was hauling in BIG money. Drywall finishing. 3500 per house. His help was only paid 10/hr. And they were doing 85+ houses per year. Yet she always went to the health department for contraceptives........Well when we were together I said F that, and guess what. Because we were honest about our income we had to PAY FULL PRICE, and her parents were getting that shit for basically free.....

To top it all off, they DO NOT accept insurance. You can't go there unless you intend to take advantage. That place was about 95% financially capable moms taking there teenage daughters there to avoid any contraceptive bills on dads insurance statements.