Looks like we are past the Global Warming thing

[gwb72tii]

the problem jflip is that co2 is not a pollutant, it is a fertilizer, and to globally decrease co2 emissions in today's world is unbelievably costly. the good ol usa could probably find a way to do it quicker than most other countries, but how do explain it to 3rd world economies that cannot afford it, other than to make poverty permanent?

here's another common sense kinda look at why co2 isn't the issue.
temps have been far warmer in the immediate past (1000yrs) than they are today, with much lower atmospheric co2, and very little if any anthropogenic co2.

[jflip2002]

i suggest you read them, if for no other reason than to calm you down. there are smarter minds than yours or mine that conclude CO2 is a marker of warming temps, not the cause of warmer temps.

Again, Im not even relating it to temperatures, for all I care. The temps can keep climbing, or start to drop. It can be natural, or caused by man. Im not debating that. I think at this point all people can do is debate, and support, nothing can really be proven.

What is a fact: Calcifiers such as corals and invertebrates can not tolerate too low of a pH. The low pH will start to "eat away" at the calcium carbonate, or at least inhibit the calcifiers from utilizing them. Thats a fact, no way around. 100%, absolute fact.

What is theory or beliefs is that we are causing this problem, or that we can actually prevent it. Who knows, really? Im just saying it wouldnt hurt to be safe, rather than sorry. Id really hate for my little scumbag kids, when I have them, to not know what a reef is, or never be able to snorkel along one.

That is all, but those are some interesting reads, all of them. Im not ruling them out by any means, and Im not going to follow them as if they were the gospel. Its just a little scary when you read that coral reefs are at an all time low (who cares if its factual, and the REAL all time low, or just a low PERIOD) in growth. And its even more frightening that they say around 20% of these reefs have been destroyed. There are life cycles for everything, maybe this is just one of those. Id just really hate for it not to be, and us end up being the cause for the most diverse environment on our planet. Id feel like a real piece
of shit if I knew it was my fault.

Oh god not this shit again.

Yea, lets save the Earth... by paying taxes.

:roll:

Ignorant. No one said that. Go tag along in the member rides or something, young man.

[//MPower]

Oh god not this shit again.

Yea, lets save the Earth... by paying taxes.

:roll:

[jflip2002]

That first one was a good read, ive gotta read the rest when I get back in an hour or so. Im open to the fact that this might be exaggerated and made a bigger deal than it possibly could be. Id like to play it safe though, and reducing emissions (CO2 mainly) certainly wouldnt HURT.

[gwb72tii]

HOw the fuck has it been thoroughly discredited? ."

here some help for you flip man

http://co2science.org/articles/V12/N1/EDIT.php

http://co2science.org/articles/V12/N1/C1.php

http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/comment.php?comment.news.82

http://www.globalwarminghoax.com/comment.php?comment.news.68

i suggest you read them, if for no other reason than to calm you down. there are smarter minds than yours or mine that conclude CO2 is a marker of warming temps, not the cause of warmer temps.

[jflip2002]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28156581/

[mrsleeve]

Has anyone noticed that cows produce more methane than cars do CO2, maybe we just need to eat more burgers

The feds were (before all the economic craziness) trying to pas a law that would tax farmers on COW FARTS how fucking stupid is that.

[Holland]

anyway. we should clean up our emissions and everything else for that matter. im no eco hippie but we shouldn't waste so much anyway. Aside from that this Earth is all we have so it would'nt be wise to trash it up and kill organisms. point said.

[Holland]

Has anyone noticed that cows produce more methane than cars do CO2, maybe we just need to eat more burgers

[jflip2002]

HOw the fuck has it been thoroughly discredited? God you are such a fucking retard. Im not talking, nor CARING about global warming. Im talking about CO2 levels effecting the pH of our oceans, effecting our reefs. Do you not get that? It has not been thoroughly discredited. Go punch yourself in the face, fucking loser.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28436388

The rate at which corals absorb calcium from seawater to calcify their hard skeletons — and thus grow — has declined dramatically in the last two decades and signs point to manmade greenhouse gas emissions as the culprit, according to a study of samples from Australia's Great Barrier Reef.

Researchers with the Australian Institute of Marine Science looked at the skeletal records of porites corals collected over the years at 69 reefs along the 1,600-mile-long Great Barrier Reef. Those corals, some 400 years old, showed that calcification declined by 13 percent between 1990 and 2005.

"The data suggest that such a severe and sudden decline in calcification is unprecedented in at least the past 400 years," the researchers stated in the study, published in the peer-reviewed journal Science.

A reef expert not involved in the study described it as "very important." In a commentary posted on newsvine.com for msnbc.com, John Bruno added that "the findings are frankly pretty scary."

"Slower growth might not seem like a big problem, but reef scientists are concerned that this will exacerbate the impacts of other threats to coral reefs," said Bruno, an associate professor of marine ecology at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. "For example, it will slow the vertical growth of corals, making it harder for them to keep up with rising sea levels.

"It could also slow recovery from other disturbances such as coral bleaching episodes and destructive storms," Bruno added. Bleaching occurs when corals expel the organisms living inside that create the colors found on reefs.

The study's authors themselves wrote that "precipitous changes in the biodiversity and productivity of the world's oceans may be imminent" given how central coral reefs are to marine ecosystems.

Changes tracked via skeletal rings
The researchers sampled porites coral, which can grow over centuries into massive boulders. Porites also lay down annual growth rings, making it possible to compare specific years to water temperature records and other data.

Several potential causes were ruled out by the researchers, among them sewage and other runoff since many samples were originally far from the coast. Disease was also ruled out because the samples were all from corals that had been healthy.

That, they wrote, left "two most likely" factors, both tied to carbon dioxide emissions: warming sea temperatures and more acidic oceans as CO2 raises the pH levels of the seas.

The researchers noted that their findings confirm lab experiments and computer models predicting negative impacts of rising carbon dioxide on corals.

"If temperature and carbonate saturation are responsible for the observed changes, then similar changes are likely to be detected in the growth records from other regions and from other calcifying organisms," they warned.

How fast can coral adapt?
Bruno noted that "we will almost certainly see this problem grow over the next few centuries" due to greenhouse gas emissions. "The only questions are by how much, how quickly corals can acclimate to climate change and what the broader impacts will be."

Bleaching has also been tied to warming waters, and adds to the pressure on corals. The Great Barrier Reef saw severe bleaching in 1998 and 2002 — the two hottest summers on record there — and officials warned that the northern end of the reef could see severe bleaching again over the next few months during the Southern Hemisphere's summer.

Bruno warned that while corals are not widely visible their role is critical. "Corals create the physical structure that thousands of other species depend on," he said. "They play a role analogous to trees that create forests. When corals die, so do the fish and invertebrate animals that live on reefs."

[gwb72tii]

Which is more proof that it is just a solar flare we are experiencing. The CO2 emitted is still a big deal, since it is something WE CAN control. I dont care if temps raise, it is (or could, who the hell knows) effect the oceans pH. And to me, that is a big deal. I think that a lot of us on here (except the few who post extremes) are in the right train of thought, since no one is really "right" or "wrong". Now we're just getting more in depth with our beliefs and opinions. I think it is safe to say that it wouldnt hurt to live a little cleaner.

so Please explain why CO2 is still the issue
this has been thoroughly discredited

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^

well why didnt you say so.

[jflip2002]

But just for the same reasons a dog dose not shit where he eats.

That pretty much sums up my thoughts.

[mrsleeve]

Which is more proof that it is just a solar flare we are experiencing. The CO2 emitted is still a big deal, since it is something WE CAN control. I dont care if temps raise, it is (or could, who the hell knows) effect the oceans pH. And to me, that is a big deal. I think that a lot of us on here (except the few who post extremes) are in the right train of thought, since no one is really "right" or "wrong". Now we're just getting more in depth with our beliefs and opinions. I think it is safe to say that it wouldnt hurt to live a little cleaner.

Right I have no issues with cleaning shit up an useing less of harmful substances but not because of the climate change hysteria. But just for the same reasons a dog dose not shit where he eats.


CO2 is not that harvenger of death that the Hippies preach it is. Also we have no way to control the weather here so why fucking try, its a exercise in futility.

[jflip2002]

Bingo in the last year the global ave temp has dropped enough to negate the last 100 years of warming, so that throws out the GW, Now they have switched out to Climate change to cover all their bases. So when something changes (naturally)they can say " see told you so we did it" its hard to say anything when it cools off and they have been screaming warming for 30 years.

Which is more proof that it is just a solar flare we are experiencing. The CO2 emitted is still a big deal, since it is something WE CAN control. I dont care if temps raise, it is (or could, who the hell knows) effect the oceans pH. And to me, that is a big deal. I think that a lot of us on here (except the few who post extremes) are in the right train of thought, since no one is really "right" or "wrong". Now we're just getting more in depth with our beliefs and opinions. I think it is safe to say that it wouldnt hurt to live a little cleaner.