Thank the free fucking market

[Ryan Stewart]

Im not quite sure what you meant but that being said, for being the most "advanced" country, we are kinda failing.

lol 5 in a hundred americans are born with autism now.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes

BRB packing bags lol

That is complete bullshit because its no longer autism, its autism spectrum disorder. That goes all the way from non-verbal to "quiet kid." Before they only calssified people as autisitic if they were non-verbal. Now its like ADD (or the even more inclusive ADHD), everyone could be diagnosed with the condition given the right circumstances.

[z31maniac]

^And doesn't it take on the order of 10lbs of grain to produce 1lb of beef?

[Ryan Stewart]

You should check your links before hotlinking images.

[mrsleeve]

^And doesn't it take on the order of 10lbs of grain to produce 1lb of beef?

LOL No it does not, if it did it would cost you an oz of gold for a fucking steak, a slab of bacon, or rotisserie fucking chicken from cost co

[rwh11385]

LOL No it does not, if it did it would cost you an oz of gold for a fucking steak, a slab of bacon, or rotisserie fucking chicken from cost co

Actually yeah, z31 is right. Beef is 7-10:1, Swine 3-4:1, Poultry 2:1 or something along those lines. (it's been a while but that is the general idea)

But a bushel of shelled corn weighs 56lbs, so $7 a bushel does not equal $$$$$$$ beef. Based on only feed, cost a pound of beef would be $7 a bushel / 56lb per bushel * 7-10 lb of feed per lb of beef

[mrsleeve]

Actually yeah, z31 is right. Beef is 7-10:1, Swine 3-4:1, Poultry 2:1 or something along those lines. (it's been a while but that is the general idea)

But a bushel of shelled corn weighs 56lbs, so $7 a bushel does not equal $$$$$$$ beef. Based on only feed, cost a pound of beef would be $7 a bushel / 56lb per bushel * 7-10 lb of feed per lb of beef

You dont feed corn to beef until the last 2-3 weeks before butcher. Hogs yeah you grain them a small amount most of the time you are raising them you want the large amounts of fat in them.


I grew up on a farm, we raised this kinda shit, I think I know what it takes to raise a steer and how much feed corn it takes

[z31maniac]

Yeah, I found out what I read is basically once the animal is done eating grass (500ish lbs or so) then they move it onto corn, but at that point its something 5-6lbs of corn per pound gained in the animal.

[BraveUlysses]

You dont feed corn to beef until the last 2-3 weeks before butcher. Hogs yeah you grain them a small amount most of the time you are raising them you want the large amounts of fat in them.

I grew up on a farm, we raised this kinda shit, I think I know what it takes to raise a steer and how much feed corn it takes

Don't think of it as someone discounting your experience growing up with a family who does what yours did (family farms are GREAT), but feedlot beef is pretty much the opposite of what your family did.

Some good info and points for both sides of this issue: http://www.johnrobbins.info/blog/grass-fed-beef/

[mrsleeve]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah UBER mass production farming in feed lots Vs open range grazing is a little different yes, but still IIRC the 10lbs of corn feed to 1lb of edible meat is a little high.

[delfin]

Solution=feed grain and grass to people. Let cows and pigs and chiknz extinct. Problem solved. Eat people if want meat.

[rwh11385]

Although delfin was being sarcastic, hopefully: Humans cannot digest feed corn (different from sweet corn we do eat) nor grass (thank the four stomachs bovines have). We require livestock to turn these plants into useful energy (protein and fat). We could switch to more commodity grain (rice and wheat) to spend less, be healthier, and use less resources (energy, petroleum inputs, land, water, etc.) or simply switch to a less costly meat (chicken, fish, and pig).

Sorry Sleeve... I was gonna ask how big was this farm. But because you mentioned two animals, did not seem specialized nor likely a CAFO. With 15,000 head of cattle in a feedlot, grain prices and feed conversion ratios mean a lot. I'm in groups with livestock producers and have friends in marketing check-off organizations. There are plenty of herds that were culled in 2008 as corn prices rocketed. And feed conversion ratio is one of the reasons swine producers (who were getting beat down) switched to aquaculture (raising fish) because their FCR is closer to 2. Although 10:1 for beef seems high, it's within the range and the numbers we used were commonly 3, 6, and 8 for broiler / pork / cattle. These ratios are also the reason why emerging markets like China focus on poultry and pigs rather than cows because they are more affordable when they are just getting to the point they can afford to have animal protein. Their diets were mostly rice, and also other places wheat, which are commodity (cheap - usually when no supply crisis) grains. But CAFOS produce the majority of the meat on the market so their feed management choices impact prices much more than family ones.

LOLz at Corvallis fail at posting pics. It is also funny he thinks that his hippie ass can read a few liberal sources and posting some pictures and be as informed as someone who spent hours upon hours (i.e. 2000+) researching the subject matter and working with industry thought leaders. Also doesn't hurt to have a friend at the USDA ERS whose whole job was researching farmer's input costs and income. If someone doesn't believe me, I'll track down some reports.

Labor is much more a greater percentage of high value crops (fruits, veggies, tree nuts, etc.) costs than livestock. Also, transportation costs are a large factor as they must be carefully handled vs. grain and can only be grown in some regions. Livestock can be raised in lots of places (except California by CAFOs thanks to Prop 2). But you need to truck watermelons and oranges up from the South, etc. Access to fresh produce is tougher in larger cities and especially tough for low income areas. This is why there has been an interest in urban horticulture to grow greens that the poor have a tough time accessing. So Turf was correct, an organic orange is more expensive and harder to access than a double cheeseburger for the low income people.

It's hard to bring down fruit, vegetables prices because of labor costs and inability to automate it like what was done with grains. Avoiding Hardees, eating white meat vs. red, and purchasing fruit and veggies rather than sweets and snacks, could make for potentially cheaper food budget and much healthier person. But that is tough for some who are attracted to marketing of more and more meat (BK Stacker) or the complications of HVC (fruits and veggies go back, magical preserved, processed foods like breaded, fried foods do not). Soda is cooler and tastier (to a lot of consumers) than fruit juice and usually cheaper from what I remember. (HFCS and water vs. grown, picked, squeezed fruit juice).

[FredK]

informed hick up itt

[mrsleeve]

yeah heeter we did mostly dairy, and raised between 10-50 steers a year. with a few hogs in there for personal use tossed in as far a live stock goes.

We were just a small family out fit, never could have made a 100% living from it, we just were not big enough and the land prices around us were just too high to try and even make a go at expanding to try and make 100% go at it. I do miss it though, I ever hit the lottery I am buying a ranch and going back to to it. LOL

[Turf1600]

It's hard to bring down fruit, vegetables prices because of labor costs and inability to automate it like what was done with grains. Avoiding Hardees, eating white meat vs. red, and purchasing fruit and veggies rather than sweets and snacks, could make for potentially cheaper food budget and much healthier person. But that is tough for some who are attracted to marketing of more and more meat (BK Stacker) or the complications of HVC (fruits and veggies go back, magical preserved, processed foods like breaded, fried foods do not). Soda is cooler and tastier (to a lot of consumers) than fruit juice and usually cheaper from what I remember. (HFCS and water vs. grown, picked, squeezed fruit juice).

You're probably right - I'm sure I haven't researched this topic nearly as much as some but it's not hard to draw logical conclusions. I always thought we failed to subsidize fruits and veggies because much of it is imported. Either way, this is all one of the reasons that I want to move out of houston. We have 3 farmers markets for 6 million people to share. Combine that with scorching hot summers and close to 1,200 fast food places - it's hard to have a healthy lifestyle here. I understand that and am empathetic towards the poor.

PS - I like your line on the 3 types of lies. Whats sick is how many people fall for it.

[rwh11385]

Yeah, farmers markets are good but even grocery stores can have fresh, good produce. It's not necessarily mandatory to go to Whole Foods, etc. to eat well. I was busy the end of last year and bought food at restaurants or nuked frozen food and it added up quick. Switching to more fresh chick/eggs, instead of breaded/fried processed or eating out, and fresh fruit and juice instead of snacks and soda (it adds up when you choose it to go with your fast food because it is cheap and easy for them to mix soda water and flavored sugar) instantly brought down weight and feeling better.

Houston probably has it stacked against obesity odds. But just because it is doesn't mean one cannot be healthy. But average Americans fall into the hole.

Look at the Europeans life expectancy, and I'll go back to mentioning their diets. A recent show I watched while channel surfing was about how Europeans don't have meat be their whole meal, but rather as a compliment to the rest of the meal. Including more veggies and whole grains along with meat would go a long way. They have some fast food, but because their consumers are willing to pay for premium food items, they have more local, fresh, and more healthy food items in delis and ready to go in small grocers that is hard to find here. If we start buying more, there will be a recognition of the demand and supply. But keep buying triple cheeseburgers and large fries will keep it coming. Look at the impact of Super Size me. Options of sides, smaller sizes, and more healthy meals (esp. Subway with apple slices). It won't make it any cheaper necessarily, but if healthy gets more mainstream, then it will bring prices down and availability up.