AAHHHGGGGGGG this ought piss you off

[Wiglaf]

NO NO NO its not, its got 15-20% less BUT by volume than GAS and about 30% less BTU by volume then #2 Diesel. It takes 2 1/2 times more input energy from seed to tank as it does and equal amount of petrol from hole to tank to make corn into a viable motor fuel.

Still not sure why this is such a hard pill to swallow. So if you got got 50% range and it cost 50% of the money, it's still the same cost per mile. What is the issue? You sound like one of the people who are all like "I'll never buy an electric unless it'll let me drive 2000 mile per day". Forget that, I know you are. But still.. wtf. The stuff performs great under high compression and all sorts of other normal traditional gas motor performance tests we can throw at it. And it's the cleanest shit ever. I don't think the hate is justified at all.

NO NO NO NO, the farmers would be just fine as it is now if we took the farm subsidies away now.

ok then. You may be right, I'm out of my element on this one. Take away subsidies anyways? fine by me.

NO NO NO NO NO some more. We can Lower our FUCKING IMPORT NEEDS BY OPENING UP OUR OWN VAST UNTOUCHED OIL FIELDS

short-term solution. The approach of "save it for when shit really hits the fan" works for me. And by that I mean $10+ per gallon. People fretting over $0.15 per gallon is laughable, wake the fuck up. Between inflation and everything else we will see $6 by fall. And as we know from katrina $3.99 is fine but $4.00 is FUCKING PANIC TIME OMFG.

There is not enough farm ground in the world to grow 15% of our every expanding fuel needs AND OUR FUCKING FOOD SUPPLY let alone good water resources. YOU GROW FUCKING FOOD NOT MOTOR FUEL.

You're full of shit if you believe this. really. We're in for a major lifestyle change regardless, but if you subscribe to this mentality then we are fucked 100% for sure. Might as well just throw in the towel.

NO YOU WONT see all the farms come back, not when the land is worth more as develop-able real estate than ... FARM LIFE SUCKS YADDA YADDA

Again I can admit that you may know more about farm life than me.. but it seems to me that if the demand is there, and you have supply, well that's a pretty simple equation to wrap your brain around. You don't need millions upfront to start selling shit, always possible to start modest and work up from there. And yeah it's not a glamorous lifestyle, never was. But plenty of people are happy with modest. That is rural life.

[mrsleeve]

Still not sure why this is such a hard pill to swallow. So if you got got 50% range and it cost 50% of the money, it's still the same cost per mile. What is the issue? You sound like one of the people who are all like "I'll never buy an electric unless it'll let me drive 2000 mile per day". Forget that, I know you are. But still.. wtf. The stuff performs great under high compression and all sorts of other normal traditional gas motor performance tests we can throw at it. And it's the cleanest shit ever. I don't think the hate is justified at all.

Ok lets do some very simple math.

You will lose at least 20% of your fuel mileage (even in the Flex fuel shit that its designed to run on the shit)

Assuming Regular at $3.60/gal, a savings of 40 cents (buy buying the cheaper e85) = 11% so you will lose at least 9% on a dollar for dollar basis.

It'd be about the same as paying $3.90/gallon for regular to drive the same distance.

This is just at the pump not including the 46cents the govt pays per gallon sold and the premium for the corn to entice the farmers to grow it, and the huge expenditures of tax dollars to just build the facilities to make the shit. Not to mention the huge amounts of energy to make the conversions over an equal amount of petrol, really how many times must I explain this to you, its not that hard of a concept to grasp.

short-term solution. The approach of "save it for when shit really hits the fan" works for me. And by that I mean $10+ per gallon. People fretting over $0.15 per gallon is laughable, wake the fuck up. Between inflation and everything else we will see $6 by fall. And as we know from katrina $3.99 is fine but $4.00 is FUCKING PANIC TIME OMFG.

Ummmm We have more untapped reserves in this country than the bulk of the Mid east combined, You know the area that has fueled the bulk of the world for 70 years. Yea we have more in UNTAPPED RESERVES lets go USE IT.

Fuel Prices AFFECT THE COST OF EVERYTHING as it takes Fuel to move it and ship it too you plus the energy to make it, and move the raw products to where they need to be to before manufacture. You will feel high fuel prices 100 times over in every single aspect of your life not just at the pump.

You're full of shit if you believe this. really. We're in for a major lifestyle change regardless, but if you subscribe to this mentality then we are fucked 100% for sure. Might as well just throw in the towel.

With farmers already moving to ethanol subsidized corn production. 2010 production was 12.4b bushels 5.4b to be used for feeding live stock, and 5.2b for Ethanol. Umm that leaves not much for both export and production for FOOD TO EAT.

2011 gas usage is projected to be 9.1m Barrels a day (or 382 million gallons a day or 139.5 BILLION gallons a year) 15% of that is gonna be 20.9b gallons a year. With a average conversion rate of 2.77gal pre Bushel you are looking at 10B bushels plus a little bit to make that 15%. SO what do we feed the cows, pigs, chickens, and everything else we eat and what do we make all the corn flakes and other food out of??????? What do we export to other countries, so the rest of the world can eat too????

If we devote even more ground to a Water intensive crop like corn where do we put it???? and where do we get the water for it in the more arid areas??? There just is not enough ground to do both even at the 15% ratio.

Again I can admit that you may know more about farm life than me.. but it seems to me that if the demand is there, and you have supply, well that's a pretty simple equation to wrap your brain around. You don't need millions upfront to start selling shit, always possible to start modest and work up from there. And yeah it's not a glamorous lifestyle, never was. But plenty of people are happy with modest. That is rural life.

Well yes your 100% right there is no demand there other than govt interference. It would not be CHEAPER at the pump with out the subsidies, there for it cant stand on its own with out the govt.

Yes even a small farm that you can live on the profits at the end of the year with out REAL JOB to support it, is going to cost you 7 figures to get into, (unless you have the land willed to you) I know I have often tired to come up with a way to get back into it FULL TIME and not have work a real job too.

[CorvallisBMW]

my e30 doesn't run on corn :(

QFT

Ethanol is fucking RETARDED

[z31maniac]

It's really amazing that anyone who isn't a congressman from a corn growing state could think Ethanol is a good idea.

The simple fact that it cost more BTU's of energy to make than you get from using it makes it stupid. We lose energy in the conversion for every single gallon produced.

I wonder if any chemist or something has come up with a formula for HOW MUCH energy we lose on a daily basis due to the refining of corn-based Ethanol.


I also want to see where the manufacturers are saying they are OK/Happy with E15, that's not been what i've read. And I've read the flex fuel vehicles run like dog shit on E85.

If you have the fuel pump/injector headroom, an E85 turbo monster is about the only thing it's good for.

[nando]

I'd love some E85, in fact I'd like to build my next motor around it.. but E10 can suck it. Lose/lose.

although I do totally agree that CORN based ethanol is a really, really stupid idea. But there are other biofuels that could possibly work far better.

Personally, I think it's all a waste of time - electric cars are the most likely path of the future. I just want E85 so I can build a high compression turbo motor, to hell with fuel economy.. if the government is going to force it on me, I may as well enjoy it!

[Farbin Kaiber]

Now if Biofuel was grown in algae ponds on the open sea, we could have a two fold benefit, fuel production, and, Co2 "eating". But, somebody had the idea to use food. Sounds like Govt. intervention over logic to me.

[M-technik-3]

It's really amazing that anyone who isn't a congressman from a corn growing state could think Ethanol is a good idea.

Kick backs in the form of DONATIONS toward reelection!

[Good & Tight]

If you have the fuel pump/injector headroom, an E85 turbo monster is about the only thing it's good for.

Those stupid waffleswaffleswaffleswaffless driving their hybrid around thinking that they are doing something good for the enviornment.

You can't deny the facts, E85 is the shit for turbo cars.
I can live with 8mpg for this amount of power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7aM7XGZw8E&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

[nando]

I love running down stupid Priuses. ok, I'm not exactly threatening them, but it's quite easy to put the fear of god into their frail bodies if you run them down on an on-ramp without even trying and pass them. oh, and I probably just used all the fuel they "saved" with their ultra subsidized hybrid that will actually have a larger carbon footprint for the next 25 years than my old (non fuel efficient) car.