Global Warming is over.

[mrsleeve]

Where have you seen anyone say what you are purporting?

*cough* CAP & TRADE *hack wheeze cough*

[parkerbink]

*cough* CAP & TRADE *hack wheeze cough*

Please post where cap & trade is calling for total shut down. That was his claim.

Without regulation, you had the Cuyahoga burning.

https://youtu.be/_Y0mskbIxRQ

[ForcedFirebird]

The oceans have been rising rapidly in recent times already, and we deal with it down here. Miami Beach is spending $.5bil to pump salt water out of the city. It's predicted that Miami Beach will be inhabitable by 2100...

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/miami-beach/article209328849.html

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/sea-levels-could-rise-two-feet-by-2100-study-warns-10083863

Miami is ~6' above sea level so surge tides are already damaging homes.

[mrsleeve]

Please post where cap & trade is calling for total shut down. That was his claim.

Without regulation, you had the Cuyahoga burning.

Ummmm yes I am aware of the great river fires of the 50s and 60s, I have never said the EPA or regulation is a bad thing, though I am on record as saying the EPA has out grown its scope in many instance, and is used as a weapon against entities that dont align themselves with the current political structure that's happens to occupy the big white house much like the IRS. Never more evident than under the last Presidential administration

this is what I was addressing with my reference,

I haven't seen what "reasonable" is to you folk. I just see another opportunity for government control with no expectation of actual results.

Cap and Trade is designed with this very scam in mind, the ability to regulate and tax at will with no correlation to actual real world results, while ignoring ever other nation on the globes emissions as well. Just arbitrary numbers and "targets" thas sound good, with little bearing on economic feasibility, regard to the laws of physics or actions of the end consumer of the product. With those numbers and targets based on how to extract maximum taxation out of the private sector, its about govt revenue and control, not about saving the planet, make no mistakes about it, and thats why it must never be implemented.

[E30 Wagen]

Pretty alarmist if you ask me. A far fetched scenario with just as far fetched consequences makes for a hell of a reason to change everything we do and bring us back into the dark ages where we have practically zero energy.

Think about the consequences of the removal of fossil fuels from life as we know it. You think melting ice would be bad? How about famine, pestilence and death?

Really? Is this how your mind really works? Dismiss the many associated effects of rising sea levels, even if they would exist far in the future, as alarmist, and refute it with an even greater alarmist idea, which nobody has suggested, to completely revert our energy use to the dark ages and the collapse of civilization? If you can't even try to be reasonable with your own arguments then we won't take you seriously.

There are parts of the world functioning just fine without fossil fuels, btw. It's not like there has to be this massive shift all once. It's those small little improvements to how we capture and use energy that add up over time. If cap and trade is the impetus then so what? Our air gets cleaner, our transportation gets more efficient, our homes get more energy efficient, our freshwater supplies stay fresh, etc. These aren't trivial things designed purely to squeeze taxes out of us.

[ForcedFirebird]

This bickering reminds me of my children.

Facts are facts people...

[marshallnoise]

This bickering reminds me of my children.

Facts are facts people...

Isn't that what the bickering is about? Whether "facts" are indeed facts?

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[ForcedFirebird]

Isn't that what the bickering is about? Whether "facts" are indeed facts?

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Potato/potato. Yes indeed. No matter how you slice the bread, it's still bread.

[ForcedFirebird]

Did you click my links and watch the next 40yr of Miami Beach progression? It's real and in my back yard.

[marshallnoise]

Prediction of the future does not constitute facts or science. But no, I didnt look at your links. The premise is false on its face.

Did you click my links and watch the next 40yr of Miami Beach progression? It's real and in my back yard.

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[decay]

Prediction of the future does not constitute facts or science. But no, I didnt look at your links. The premise is false on its face.

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you could save us all some time if you just put your phone down, stuck your fingers in your ears, and said "lalalalalalalaa i can't hear you".

[ForcedFirebird]

Prediction of the future does not constitute facts or science. But no, I didnt look at your links. The premise is false on its face.

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Cool. I bark at facts, evidence and science. It is what it is. Not interested in "hockey sticks" or any jargon. Truth be said, it's 2am my time and I'm tracking celestial events lol.

Totally geeking out in my telescope...

[ForcedFirebird]

Prediction of the future does not constitute facts or science. But no, I didnt look at your links. The premise is false on its face.

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...and you had me at..."no, I didn't look"

[parkerbink]

Isn't that what the bickering is about? Whether "facts" are indeed facts?

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Partially. Some are providing facts, you are spouting unsupported nonsense.

Or are you just refusing to post those links to scientists/government leaders calling for a return to the 12th century? (that don't exist)

[marshallnoise]

Partially. Some are providing facts, you are spouting unsupported nonsense.

Or are you just refusing to post those links to scientists/government leaders calling for a return to the 12th century? (that don't exist)

Sleeve already discussed cap and trade as one glaring example. Another would be the environazis who legitimately believe that the human race is a scourge on the planet. Granted, they don't have the ear of the federal government now, but they do in California where they hate fossil fuels, the fact that people need water and need to travel from place to place.

People have to paint their houses twice as often in California because the paint has been stripped of any chemicals that make it last and I am not even suggesting we go back to lead. Environmentalists in California love shutting down nuclear power plants, they love stopping hydroelectric power generation and they don't even want solar power grids to be linked from the desert to the metropolitan areas that need it.

Yes, California environmentalists want to bring us back to the dark ages. But they won't give up their iPhones and Teslas. Therefore, its about power and control and not about the environment.

As California goes, so goes the nation.

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