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    #76
    Originally posted by BraveUlysses View Post
    Oh, there's that strawman you were talking about. It was yours all along.
    Hardly. It's a genuine question.

    Why is delaying the business mandate not detrimental to the law, but delaying the individual mandate (for the same length of time) detrimental to the law?
    Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
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      #77
      Originally posted by z31maniac View Post
      Hardly. It's a genuine question.

      Why is delaying the business mandate not detrimental to the law, but delaying the individual mandate (for the same length of time) detrimental to the law?
      Because it directly undermines the exchanges coming online this exact week!

      The exchanges only work if people are expected to be buying insurance through them.

      You are conflating two separate parts of the ACA.

      Comment


        #78
        Originally posted by z31maniac View Post
        Hardly. It's a genuine question.

        Why is delaying the business mandate not detrimental to the law, but delaying the individual mandate (for the same length of time) detrimental to the law?
        It doesn't work without the individual mandate. If you delay it you have to delay the whole thing. It doesn't make since to delay the entire bill. Hospitals, states and everyone is geared up to proceed. They had years to prepare and now all of a sudden the GOP wants to delay it for a year, as if that will make things better?It makes no since.

        Any party, no matter what side, that uses the economy as leverage to repeal bills that have already been through the democratic process, is a threat to democracy. Any sane republican with half a brain should be appalled by what a radical minority faction is doing to the country, even if you agree 100% with their ideologies. It's not right. You can disagree with the ACA all day long, but do you really think this is a good tactic for a minority party, to fuck up the entire economy until the minority gets what they want? It doesn't seam to me to be a very democratic process.
        sigpic

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          #79
          Now these responses make sense, I have to admit, I'm not as up on the business vs individual mandate as I should be. I'll be honest and say I've got company sponsored insurance that is fantastic and not changing, so I haven't paid as much attention as I should have.

          I would agree that the R's continue to generally fuck everything up.

          But the D's aren't free of blood from their hands either.
          Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
          Chief Sales Officer, Midwest DivisionóBlunt Tech Industries

          www.gutenparts.com
          One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

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            #80
            Originally posted by herbivor View Post
            It doesn't work without the individual mandate. If you delay it you have to delay the whole thing. It doesn't make since to delay the entire bill. Hospitals, states and everyone is geared up to proceed. They had years to prepare and now all of a sudden the GOP wants to delay it for a year, as if that will make things better?It makes no since.

            Any party, no matter what side, that uses the economy as leverage to repeal bills that have already been through the democratic process, is a threat to democracy. Any sane republican with half a brain should be appalled by what a radical minority faction is doing to the country, even if you agree 100% with their ideologies. It's not right. You can disagree with the ACA all day long, but do you really think this is a good tactic for a minority party, to fuck up the entire economy until the minority gets what they want? It doesn't seam to me to be a very democratic process.
            who cares delay the whole thing, your right they have had years to get ready yet the state exchanges have been mostly down and giving everyone hell whos trying to comply with the law. Why not delay it another year and work out most of the kinks in that time.
            Originally posted by Fusion
            If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
            The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


            The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

            Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
            William Pitt-

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
              who cares delay the whole thing, your right they have had years to get ready yet the state exchanges have been mostly down and giving everyone hell whos trying to comply with the law. Why not delay it another year and work out most of the kinks in that time.
              A one year delay because the websites aren't working? Brilliant logic.
              Just stop posting.

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by herbivor View Post
                Any party, no matter what side, that uses the economy as leverage to repeal bills that have already been through the democratic process, is a threat to democracy. Any sane republican with half a brain should be appalled by what a radical minority faction is doing to the country, even if you agree 100% with their ideologies. It's not right. You can disagree with the ACA all day long, but do you really think this is a good tactic for a minority party, to fuck up the entire economy until the minority gets what they want? It doesn't seam to me to be a very democratic process.
                Like I said, people like sleeve would be shitting blood if the roles were reversed and the dems were trying to use a similar situation to push gun control legislation.

                It's pure bullshit to hold our federal government and economy hostage to try to overturn laws they don't like and couldn't repeal through normal congressional processes. Because they failed the other 41 times they have tried to get it overturned.

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by BraveUlysses View Post
                  A one year delay because the websites aren't working? Brilliant logic.
                  Just stop posting.
                  I am sure there are other glitches that are out there as well. they have been crafitng the regulations mandated by this law for the last 3 years, and I am sure all those were done better than the web site too right?? Gun regs are going to be hard to push because too many peoples jobs are on the line if they try that, and since when is heath care on the list of SPELLED OUT protected RIGHTS in the Constitution???

                  I am not a fan of how this turned out and I still think this is just the beginning or the cover for something much more sinister and devious, though I just have no idea what.

                  As to your other retort about little negotiation and not reading the fucking thing or knowing what they were passing. The bill was written by dems (who didnt read it) the R's offered over 700 amendments only 161 were adopted, and only 29 of those were of substance the rest were mostly procedural

                  Here is the "father of the ACA" Charmian of the senate financial committee Max Baucus at a town hall meeting in Libby MT admitting in his own words and from his own mouth he didnt read the bill he is credited with.



                  here is the same guy saying the bill he is credited with is not ready and is going to be a train wreck and has no idea what to tell us worried constituents .


                  Yeah hes one of the longest sitting senators and hes not running again in 2016 he knows hes finished with us there has been lots of back lash all over the state over this shit.

                  Is this the statements of someone whos read the fucking thing, If you have read it would you not know whats in it and be able to explain it to people who have questiosn about it????




                  I know you have seen the last one, but should I continue to find you people saying shit in their own words with their own mouth.
                  Last edited by mrsleeve; 10-03-2013, 06:30 PM.
                  Originally posted by Fusion
                  If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                  The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                  The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                  Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                  William Pitt-

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                    I am sure there are other glitches that are out there as well. they have been crafitng the regulations mandated by this law for the last 3 years, and I am sure all those were done better than the web site too right?? Gun regs are going to be hard to push because too many peoples jobs are on the line if they try that, and since when is heath care on the list of SPELLED OUT protected RIGHTS in the Constitution???

                    I am not a fan of how this turned out and I still think this is just the beginning or the cover for something much more sinister and devious, though I just have no idea what.
                    I know you're not a fan of the ACA, and that's fine, you're entitled to your beliefs, and to vote for people that represent your views, but do you really think shutting down the government is the appropriate way for the minority to protest a law that has been passed by congress, accepted by the supreme court, with a president that got reelected by the majority after it was passed? Should the minority party shut down the government every time a bill passes they don't like? Don't like food stamps? Shut it down. Gays marrying? Shut it down. It seems to fly in the face of the democracy to me.
                    sigpic

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                      #85
                      Sleeve, don't be a fuckin retard.

                      No matter what stupid shit Pelosi says, you cannot honestly say that nobody read the bill. Don't be that stupid.

                      And I bet you've never read it either.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        ^
                        What about the guy that wrote it now back pedaling as fast as he can on it, and what not. yeah I am sure interns and shit read it. Its 2400 fucking pages, even if you condensed it to say 50% of that to get the gist of it, all from your interns you still are missing all kinds of shit dont you think


                        Originally posted by herbivor View Post
                        I know you're not a fan of the ACA, and that's fine, you're entitled to your beliefs, and to vote for people that represent your views, but do you really think shutting down the government is the appropriate way for the minority to protest a law that has been passed by congress, accepted by the supreme court, with a president that got reelected by the majority after it was passed? Should the minority party shut down the government every time a bill passes they don't like? Don't like food stamps? Shut it down. Gays marrying? Shut it down. It seems to fly in the face of the democracy to me.
                        No honestly I dont. Like I said I dont think all is as it seems, we have the debt ceiling coming up fast, QE3 decision on when to start tapering off the end of the month. I am really wondering if there is not much more to all of this. I have been saying its all a big dog and pony show at this point since this thread started.

                        IIRC The SCOTUS ONLY vetted the tax portion. By saying that the the govt can levy a tax for what ever they want. again IIRC they didnt delve into the constitutionality of that tax, that was for another case.
                        Originally posted by Fusion
                        If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                        The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                        The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                        Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                        William Pitt-

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                          ^
                          What about the guy that wrote it now back pedaling as fast as he can on it, and what not. yeah I am sure interns and shit read it. Its 2400 fucking pages, even if you condensed it to say 50% of that to get the gist of it, all from your interns you still are missing all kinds of shit dont you think
                          I don't know who the guy is nor do I care why some cockroach politician is now changing his mind about something because he got backlash for a bill he championed. It's irrelevant.

                          So we have gone from nobody read it to some "interns and shit"

                          What am I missing sleeve? What's in the legislation that we all should know? Don't blue ball me bro

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Ok the chairman of the senate finance committee THE COMMITTEE THAT AUTHORED THE BULK OF THE ACA back pedals on the law he over saw the writing of and admits to not reading is IRRELEVANT???? Just how is that IRRELEVANT when that was your job to know it because you were writing the fucking thing???????

                            I am sure some internes were handed a section of the bill and tasked to come up with the cliffs notes versions of their respective sections. Or at least something to that effect.

                            Control is whats in it
                            Originally posted by Fusion
                            If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                            The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                            The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                            Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                            William Pitt-

                            Comment


                              #89
                              I know he's a nutball now, but this makes sense...

                              McAfee on Obamacare

                              "This is insane. I will predict that the loss of income for the millions of Americans that are going to lose their identities … "
                              1974.5 Jensen Healey : 2003 330i/5 : 2007 335i/6

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                                Ok the chairman of the senate finance committee THE COMMITTEE THAT AUTHORED THE BULK OF THE ACA back pedals on the law he over saw the writing of and admits to not reading is IRRELEVANT???? Just how is that IRRELEVANT when that was your job to know it because you were writing the fucking thing???????

                                I am sure some internes were handed a section of the bill and tasked to come up with the cliffs notes versions of their respective sections. Or at least something to that effect.

                                Control is whats in it
                                It's irrelevant to the discussion at hand here--why the government is shut down because butthurt GOP members have held it hostage.

                                Again, I don't care about this guy or why he is backpedaling in an effort to save his career. Montana is full of conservative type people and I'm sure he's pissed a good number of them off.

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