Trump Thread 2.0

[mbonder]

I am sorry, but socialism doesn't work.

On another note, I don't understand how someone that served wants to be a Democrat today. It's so very anti American, anti rights.

Being a Democrat certainly doesn't mean you're anti-American or Anti-Rights. Don't be so deluded man.

I stand and sing the national anthem at every ballgame I attend, I'm willing to contribute money to local veterans organizations, I absolutely love being an American. I also believe in everyone's rights as enshrined in the Constitution. I'm a Democrat because I believe in their policies more than the Republican policies at the present time. Maybe that will change as I grow older, but for now, I'd rather attempt to aid society as a whole by supporting the government's attempt to do so. I don't mind being a participant in this shared society.

I'm tired of the healthcare argument. Self-insuring is certainly a possibility for all, however, most people are not financially capable of doing so for large items like their homes or their health. With the cost of care so astronomical, it's impractical to do so. Any type of insurance purchased from a company by an individual is a form of socialism because you are buying into a larger pool that all contribute to protecting each other, essentially the definition of socialism.

[Schnitzer318is]

I am sorry, but socialism doesn't work.

Capitalism is great in theory, tell the lawmakers they might want to try bringing it back. We haven't had capitalism in this country in a half a century (or more). Bailouts, subsidies, and lobbyists have seen to it. Republicans love to tout out the C word for speeches, but when it comes to legislation they are all for that socialism and government intervention. The telecom industry, banking, energy, and the list could go on and on... we DO NOT live in a capitalist economy.

I'm all for socialized health care, and here's why. I have 2 children. Each kid cost over $20,000 to have naturally delivered with no complications at a decent hospital. $20,000+!!! We pay a little less than 10% of our annual in health insurance premiums of some kind for a family of 4. And that's with a negotiated plan with a large bank/ financial corporation (employer). Could you imagine if we had to purchase our own on the "open" market.

[Wschnitz]

Republicans have always been ok with giving their rich friends tax cuts and bailouts no matter the cost but get all clammy when you could potentially help poor people for the same money.

Cause that would be socialism, and that makes you a damn commie.

[gwb72tii]

Republicans have always been ok with giving their rich friends tax cuts and bailouts no matter the cost but get all clammy when you could potentially help poor people for the same money.

Cause that would be socialism, and that makes you a damn commie.

44% of Americans pay no income tax at all, which i believe is wrong.
Everyone should have skin in the game

[Massive Lee]

44% of Americans pay no income tax at all, which i believe is wrong.
Everyone should have skin in the game

Damn you're right. Being poor is wrong.
But be assured they all wished they earned enough to pay taxes... ;-)

[naplesE30]

Damn you're right. Being poor is wrong.
But be assured they all wished they earned enough to pay taxes... ;-)

Talking in absolutes immediately discounts whatever point it is your trying to make. And yes, many people demonstrate time and again they are ok with being “poor”. A large swath of people choose not to strive for more. Why? I have no idea. Just like some kids in school who are very capable choose not to work hard and get poor grades, many adults choose not to work or put forth the effort to improve. Adults should be given an opportunity, but not coddled by not having to pax taxes like those that choose to work hard. Locally to me, you really have to not want to get ahead to not have a job with a liveable wage in the current economy.

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone is a victim, a lot are results of their own life choices and choosing.

[Schnitzer318is]

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone is a victim, a lot are results of their own life choices and choosing.

Personal accountability is certainly important, and I agree, people should strive to not be on the government tit. But just like every other system you have people who abuse the system. Just like traders/ceos/etc trade on inside information or businesses/corporations take advantage of overpaid government contracts by paying lawmakers for them instead of bidding. Or social security disability lawyers paying doctors to win cases for clients who should not qualify. You could really go on and on. The difference is that people (especially the right) look at the poor as lazy, but those white collar con artists as geniuses. They are lazy... Just in a different way than the poor.

Now, do you punish those who are not abusing the system by unilaterally eliminating it? No, of course not. It needs to be more tightly regulated to close loopholes and ensure fairness (or as close to it as possible) of the system. The right only wants more regulation when it benefits their corporate overlords.

And why people get hung up on the poor not paying income tax is beyond me. They pay lots of other taxes and help to drive the economy much more than the wealthy. Every penny they get HAS to get put back into the economy... Whereas the wealthy not so much. The buying power of the huge swathe of the population that is the lower middle, lower class, and the poor vastly outpaces the wealthy. The only industry this does not hold true on is the financial... And there aren't any real products there, just paper being shuffled around.

And I understand the sentiment... I want to pay less tax too. But we have a national debt to pay down and a country we all share. I thought the Republicans worried about that but I guess only when a Democrat is in the White House is that an issue. Sooner or later taxes are going to have to go up, substantially. AND spending is going to have to come way down. Is it going to suck? Of course it is going to suck. But much like us private citizens have to cut back to avoid bankruptcy, so is the government.

[naplesE30]

I don’t think the problem with debt is what the govt brings in. We are seeing record amounts of taxes collected. Clearly spending needs to be curbed significantly. It is dreadful the amount of debt we are incurring with the amount of taxes being collected. I do feel lower taxes and reduced regulation does drive up govt revenues. Obviously there is a tipping point, but current rates seem to be working. Regulations are a little thornier issue, but the dirty secret is most large corporations love regulation as it hinders competition from smaller companies and startups as the cost of compliance is many times more burdensome on small business than large.

I agree about how Republicans are not even acknowledging the debt increase, and neither are the Dems as far as I can tell. They just both bitch about Trump and the press cover him and any other smokescreen. It’s also embarrassing how much Republicans howled about how much it cost when Obama went campaigning (I was among them) and how silent they are about Trumps cost to campaign as well. Either you care about spending or you don’t, where is the consistency? Neither side are being honest with themselves by and large. We have two political parties that have so brainwashed many that they are fighting just for the sake of it and losing all sense of rational honest thought.

I do believe welfare needs reforming. While certainly all poor are not lazy, and not all people posses the same gifts, I feel some form of work must be incorporated to receive welfare. I think it is good for personal moral, and for learning skills. I also believe if one earns an income, they should pay income taxes. Just as we all benefit from some form of govt, we must all contribute.


Also since this is the Trump thread: Acosta had to go. Not for touching an aid as the White House reasoned, but for his constant behavior and lack of decorum. Personally, I feel CNN should have removed him long ago, and would have preferred they did. Trump handled it wrong as he typically does. Acosta increasingly seemed to want to debate Trump rather than just ask questions of him and let viewers decide. He comes across as someone who is blinded by their beliefs, which is not good if you are going to be a reporter. However, being a unbiased reporter is apparently not good for profits anymore. Jake Tapper and actually Megan Kelly come about as close as anyone imho to playing it down the middle. While they both appear to have their political leanings they are not afraid to call out what appear to be their own side.

[Wschnitz]

Not even the campaigning spending, what about his Golf Spending, that was the biggest thing during Obamas term, Im pretty sure even some of you nerds were talking about it.

Trump Eclipsed Obamas 'excessive' golfing outings in 1/8th of the time, and at much higher cost since apparently he makes the government pay his businesses lol.

Can we all just remember that he ignored the emoluments clause as well? Handing off the family businesses to your children then still advertising and supporting them is not following the rules at all.

I mean, Imagine if Jimmy Carter had kept his Peanut farm, he wouldve made OBSCENE profit.

[Schnitzer318is]

I don’t think the problem with debt is what the govt brings in. We are seeing record amounts of taxes collected. Clearly spending needs to be curbed significantly. It is dreadful the amount of debt we are incurring with the amount of taxes being collected. I do feel lower taxes and reduced regulation does drive up govt revenues. Obviously there is a tipping point, but current rates seem to be working. Regulations are a little thornier issue, but the dirty secret is most large corporations love regulation as it hinders competition from smaller companies and startups as the cost of compliance is many times more burdensome on small business than large.

I agree about how Republicans are not even acknowledging the debt increase, and neither are the Dems as far as I can tell. They just both bitch about Trump and the press cover him and any other smokescreen. It’s also embarrassing how much Republicans howled about how much it cost when Obama went campaigning (I was among them) and how silent they are about Trumps cost to campaign as well. Either you care about spending or you don’t, where is the consistency? Neither side are being honest with themselves by and large. We have two political parties that have so brainwashed many that they are fighting just for the sake of it and losing all sense of rational honest thought.

I do believe welfare needs reforming. While certainly all poor are not lazy, and not all people posses the same gifts, I feel some form of work must be incorporated to receive welfare. I think it is good for personal moral, and for learning skills. I also believe if one earns an income, they should pay income taxes. Just as we all benefit from some form of govt, we must all contribute.


Also since this is the Trump thread: Acosta had to go. Not for touching an aid as the White House reasoned, but for his constant behavior and lack of decorum. Personally, I feel CNN should have removed him long ago, and would have preferred they did. Trump handled it wrong as he typically does. Acosta increasingly seemed to want to debate Trump rather than just ask questions of him and let viewers decide. He comes across as someone who is blinded by their beliefs, which is not good if you are going to be a reporter. However, being a unbiased reporter is apparently not good for profits anymore. Jake Tapper and actually Megan Kelly come about as close as anyone imho to playing it down the middle. While they both appear to have their political leanings they are not afraid to call out what appear to be their own side.

We definitely have some overlap on our views. Which I was pretty sure we would. I am left center on some issues and right center on others so I tend to agree on some issues with almost everyone.

The effect of regulation (or de-regulation) is highly dependent on the specific regulation in question. Regulation can be written to encourage competition... or stifle it. Given the dollar amounts thrown at legislators by lobbyists employed by big corporations I'll let you guess which side we have landed on. For example, the telecom industry NEEDS regulation. Especially as they have been collecting fees and "taxes" from their customers since the telecom act of '96 to build out infrastructure, especially in rural areas. Every American was supposed to have access to a 45Mb symmetrical internet connection by the late 2000's. Cities only got above that 5-6 years ago, and rural areas can't even get service unless they pay for ridiculous satellite service with crappy speeds. They have been using legislation (by way of Ajit Pai) to lower their costs while prohibiting competition. Just ask Google how difficult it's been to roll out their fiber network. De-regulation certainly didn't work out for the banking industry. Well, it worked out for the industry itself but the nation was left holding the losses. So many financial industry players should have gone to jail, especially lenders, mortgage brokers (I was one briefly just before/during the 2008 explosion), ratings agency execs (S&P, Moody's,etc), and a fistful of others. None did.

I completely agree on welfare. It needs reforming, and a steady income must be a requirement to receive benefits. Being unexpectedly laid off being the only exception, and a new job must be found within a reasonable amount of time.

Also agree the right and left fights strictly for the sake of fighting so as to not appear to be "surrendering" to the other side. Compromise and common sense has left Washington.

I disagree with your assessment of Acosta's treatment however. If Trump would simply let reporters finish asking their question without provoking a verbal combat, we'd have no issues. He does it all the time, to everyone.
Not just Acosta. But he repeatedly cuts reporters off, argues with them, belittles them, etc. It's disgusting. Acosta shares blame in that he took the bait and engaged him. They both looked like children. But the right got retarded over it and says Acosta accosted the intern and all this other garbage. Just call it what it was, a childish exchange between two idiots and move on. Everyone makes such a big deal out of things.

[naplesE30]

For sure regulation is a case by case, industry by industry issue. I hated when Trump was nominated because he is the ultimate crony capitalist. I worry he is an unwitting tool to actually move the economy towards socialism. Odds are there will be a big correction in the market under his watch, or a recession of some severity. It is inevitable at some point. Who better to illustrate the current flaws with crony capitalism than Trump. He is the perfect person to symbolize all that’s wrong with private industry getting ahead with govt tax breaks, loopholes etc. I hate how especially at the city county level, businesses get huge breaks or there own building ie. stadium paid for by taxpayers. Ask Miami Marlins fans how well that works out.!Flat tax and no more loopholes for big businesses. I am becoming more libertarian the older I become.


While banks were certainly fraudulent with there actions leading up to the mortgage banking crisis and more should have been prosecuted, people were also very foolish with there financial decisions. For instance: I was approved for a $400,000 mortgage making $36k per year in 2005. That’s insane! I would have been insane to take out a mortgage that large. Whose fault would it have been if I had? The bank or me...... I say both. Banks should have never been allowed to make those mortgages and people shouldn’t have been foolish enough to take them. I do feel genuinely bad for the family’s who were just taking out larger than they could realistically afford mortgages just because that was the price it cost for housing in there particular area. As a side note: thankfully I continued to rent and saved, and bought my home in 2009 for less than half of it original purchase price.

[z31maniac]

^Fair Tax, not flat tax.

And the banks/Wall Street aren't going to learn anything. We bailed them out once, they know we will do it again.

[naplesE30]

^Flat tax is fair. I don't subscribe to graduated tax brackets. Unless by fair tax, your referring to the Neal Boortz fair tax on consumption. That would be fine as well. "Fair" can be a very loaded word with malleable meaning.

Probably not on the banks. Do you think the consumers have either? All were doing with bailouts, debt ceiling etc is making the inevitable crash bigger.

[z31maniac]

Yes, literally, www.fairtax.org

[mrsleeve]

^Flat tax is fair. I don't subscribe to graduated tax brackets. Unless by fair tax, your referring to the Neal Boortz fair tax on consumption. That would be fine as well. "Fair" can be a very loaded word with malleable meaning.

Probably not on the banks. Do you think the consumers have either? All were doing with bailouts, debt ceiling etc is making the inevitable crash bigger.

Flat tax hurts low income earners more than what we have in place now, The fair tax plans for this and puts everyone on a level playing field in regards to basic daily consumption costs. Me or Buddy, or Flyboy or any of the other higher earners paying 10% flat would been a HUGE reduction in taxation Vs the kid that is just out of school and making 38k a year, that 10% takes a bigger bite out their monthy budget than the same 10% out of my monthy budget. Its economics of scale, the more you make the less that 10% hurts you.

With the fair tax since its levied on consumption and what you buy, and there for gets every source of income, and EVERYONE pays taxes though out their day to day lives.