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    How about the uniformed guard that was doing his job & killed by police? Or the "good guy with a gun" Killed by police when mistaken for the killer in the mall shooting??????

    [IMG]https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/my350z.com-vbulletin/550x225/80-parkerbsig_5096690e71d912ec1addc4a84e99c374685fc03 8.jpg[/IMG

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      As stated this comes down to LEOs and Societies un-acceptance of an armed populace.

      The more likely we have an unarmed society, the more likely everyone is to assume only the criminal is armed.

      Shit happens, this is why we must have training. What about the potential 3 million defensive gun uses we have that go unreported where it turned out for the better?

      Also again, as far as those that have escaped tyranny, they left because they had no recourse to defend themselves.

      Comment


        Haha, now making up numbers for unreported actions?

        8200+ per day? Riiiiiiiiigggggghhhhhht
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          Link

          In the 1990s, the CDC itself did look into one of the more controversial questions in gun social science: How often do innocent Americans use guns in self-defense, and how does that compare to the harms guns can cause in the hands of violent criminals?

          Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck conducted the most thorough previously known survey data on the question in the 1990s. His study, which has been harshly disputed in pro-gun-control quarters, indicated that there were more than 2.2 million such defensive uses of guns (DGUs) in America a year.

          Now Kleck has unearthed some lost CDC survey data on the question. The CDC essentially confirmed Kleck’s results. But Kleck didn’t know about that until now, because the CDC never reported what it found.

          Kleck figures if you do the adjustment upward he thinks necessary for those who had DGU incidents without personally owning a gun in the home at the time of the survey, and then the adjustment downward he thinks necessary because CDC didn’t do detailed follow-ups to confirm the nature of the incident, you get 1.24 percent, a close match to his own 1.326 percent figure.

          He concludes that the small different between his estimate and the CDC’s “can be attributed to declining rates of violent crime, which accounts for most DGUs. With fewer occasions for self-defense in the form of violent victimizations, one would expect fewer DGUs.”

          Comment


            No matter how the hell you liberals put it, relying on the state to protect you is a fools wish.

            The average school shooting as of 2016 is 12min long. The average police response time in America is 18minutes.

            Why do we call police first responders when you yourself onsite at any incident may instead be the first responder in less than 2 seconds from a concealed carry draw.

            Anyway for fun, though its a couple cents per round too high, along with being a bad defensive/offensive round

            Comment


              R3z3n, I don't think you've thought threw this entirely. There's a major logic loop hole, you state you need a gun because of people with guns? Yet you also want more people to have guns? Thus creating more of the very thing you're afraid of, people with guns.

              You also make a distinction between "good guys with guns" and "bad guys with guns". There really is no difference, it's just people with guns. Until the trigger is pulled, thus determining which side of the law their actions fall. Due to the patch work nature of state laws legality of the purchase can only be determined after the fact. So you have to work off the assumption they got it legally. After all, all "illegal" guns come from responsible law abiding gun owners. Either cause they weren't so responsible, or law abiding.

              Making a society accustomed to a armed populous, and thus the violence associated with it does nothing to curb crime. It will however decrease the value of human life within that society. Two examples, first is how we as a society have already become numb to mass shootings. Shrugging them off as just a normal part of living here. The other is looking at the highest murder areas, we'll use Chicago as an example since most due. The neighborhoods with the greatest murder rates have the easiest access to guns. Basically everyone is armed, because everyone is armed. These show on both a macro and micro scale what happens when groups start to become numb to violence and start devaluing human life. It becomes normal, instead of abhorrent.

              Comment


                Chicago has some of the strictest laws, yet very high crime. It's not a matter of reducing guns or any other tool, its as matter of morals .

                Fools think laws fix crime , and an armed society is a polite society.

                You answered your own statement on how laws make criminals after the fact.

                No one is "accepting" of any killings as normal unless you accept that the state is the only entity allowed to protect you.


                We don't need a gun, but I am granted that as a right that shall not be infringed in America. If there is s better tool that is definitely one shot one kill instead of needing 10plus rounds that may be ineffective for up to a minute, I would take it.

                I don't need a gun to protect myself from guns, but I do need one to be effective against the evils of a criminal. Let the criminal use his hands, I shall still be armed with a gun.
                Last edited by R3Z3N; 12-14-2018, 11:31 PM.

                Comment


                  I have to say that I appreciate R3Z3N being so level headed and supporting his side without resorting to personal attacks. I respect that
                  Simon
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                  Comment


                    Originally posted by R3Z3N View Post
                    Personally I find no value to muting anyone. If you ever want to S54 swap, unmute me so that you don't have to pay for MSS54 coding. I have seen no one else provide as comprehensive a list, or tools to do so. Hint, it's in the sig. Or download it now and mute me. BTW theres some "hidden" goodies you won't find anywhere else in that .zip since the MSS54 Comprehensive project is dead.
                    Muting someone who is mind-closed is just my way of 1) alerting myself to something I can skip over and 2) automatically not having to look at a wall of text when someone quotes a pro 2A letter written by a Columbine student which does nothing to support his position, in a factual manner. Or when quoting founding fathers who, as stated, had no idea what the future might hold in terms of technology, society, etc. They laid a framework. The Constitution should be a living breathing document, not a set of commandments. 3) I find no value in talking to a wall.

                    I commend you on your S54 coding work. I have not looked at any of it as I had no plans of S54 swapping anything. I don't even own an e30 as of about 3 weeks ago, but I'm sure what you have done is impressive. I don't think your political views take anything away from that accomplishment. I have no idea what MSS54 Comprehensive is.

                    BTW, I am pro 2A, just not un-regulated 2A. I own fire arms. I don't carry, I don't want everyone around me armed. I would walk out of a business where someone was open carrying. I have walked out of businesses where cops were present. Not because I dislike cops... but because I don't want my family in proximity to a firearm. I have no problem with conceal carry under most circumstances.
                    "A good memory for quotes combined with a poor memory for attribution can lead to a false sense of originality."
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                    87 325 Daily driver Sold
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                    90 325i Sold
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                    01 323ci Sold
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                    83 528e Totaled
                    98 328i Sold
                    93 325i Sold

                    Comment


                      Just think, there is evil out there. How will you be able to or try to be able to handle it should it sadly ever approach you?

                      The ONLY reason our country was special is because of the rights that have been defined to be inalienable. China has freedom of speech laws, and now currently many of their own laws contradict the preceeding laws, and if you speak out, you may go away...even permanently. The people have very little recourse to turn their country around from their enslavers.

                      1929: The Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929-1953, 20 million dissidents rounded up and murdered.

                      1911: Turkey established gun control. From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Christian Armenians rounded up and exterminated.

                      1938: Germany established gun control. From 1939-1945, 13 million Jews and others rounded up and exterminated.

                      1935: China established gun control. From 1948-1952, 20 million political dissidents rounded up and exterminated.

                      1964: Guatemala established gun control. From 1981-1984, 100,000 Mayan Indians rounded up and exterminated.

                      1970: Uganda established gun control. From 1971-1979, 300,000 Christians rounded up and exterminated.

                      1956: Cambodia established gun control. From 1975-1977, 1 million educated people rounded up and exterminated.

                      In the 20th Century more than 56 million defenseless people were rounded up and exterminated by people using gun control.

                      Oh even our own country has had major blood on its hands by way of the government, exterminating Indians via guns, we had them, they did not.

                      Comment


                        Either way disagree. Just remember this, the constitution affords us the right to take back our government via bloodshed should it come to that. Conservatives loathe that it might come to that, and how many will be willing to actually sacrifice family security and life. I fear too little if you can't bake a cake without the country in an uproar, especially as even still with the ***storm our country has be infighting, we still have I believe the best country to live in, but both sides are losing it.

                        I honestly don't care about the guns, but damn I do enjoy a day with them. If they were all gone, it would be better. But that won't happen for centuries. How is your child or wife to protect themselves from the 200lb ape wanting some unauthorized foreplay? No law, censorship, mental health screening will ever stop the wolf. The gun will for a long time due to its simplicity be the great equalizer between man and woman, child and molester, government and citizen.
                        Last edited by R3Z3N; 12-14-2018, 11:29 PM.

                        Comment


                          Also from here:
                          https://www.statista.com/statistics/...y-weapon-used/

                          Also, this fear of "AR-15s" is so very unfounded.

                          CA says I can own one, but I can't hold it with two vertical hands! I can't have a detachable magazine unless it loads from the grip? WTF? Lawmakers gotta lawmake! They don't care about the outcome, just the vote!
                          Attached Files

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                            I suggest you add stats from Canada, Australia or Great-Britain. They will debunk your theory. Because it makes no sense ;-)

                            Originally posted by R3Z3N View Post
                            1929: The Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929-1953, 20 million dissidents rounded up and murdered.

                            1911: Turkey established gun control. From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Christian Armenians rounded up and exterminated.

                            1938: Germany established gun control. From 1939-1945, 13 million Jews and others rounded up and exterminated.

                            1935: China established gun control. From 1948-1952, 20 million political dissidents rounded up and exterminated.

                            1964: Guatemala established gun control. From 1981-1984, 100,000 Mayan Indians rounded up and exterminated.

                            1970: Uganda established gun control. From 1971-1979, 300,000 Christians rounded up and exterminated.

                            1956: Cambodia established gun control. From 1975-1977, 1 million educated people rounded up and exterminated.

                            In the 20th Century more than 56 million defenseless people were rounded up and exterminated by people using gun control.

                            Oh even our own country has had major blood on its hands by way of the government, exterminating Indians via guns, we had them, they did not.
                            Brake harder. Go faster. No shit.

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                            Comment


                              Not at all. That is just last century!
                              Also, how else could normal citizens have stopped their genocides? Voted? Lethal defense is always a last resort, but damn me if I am going to take that option away from someone.
                              I sure hope the US, GB, AUS or CAN do not add to the next list. It's not a gun problem but a moral problem whether it be the criminal down the street looking for fun or a domestic political threat.

                              Lets solve it like the war on drugs. Legalize it!

                              As to your post: All 3 are losing or already lost your rights.

                              You have little recourse to regain them.

                              You as a Canadian hopefully see the absolute insanity with the over 20 "genders" your government recognizes, and the hate speech laws you have, meaning you no longer have freedom of speech such that we do. There are consequences in the US already for inciting violence via speech. Your government is already doing warrantless checks for safe storage of guns, finding the most minor of infractions or none at all and confiscating with no recourse to gain back your property.

                              Australia and GB, if you protect yourself with a legal gun, or even knife, your property will be duly taken and you considered a criminal if you protected yourself with that legal tool

                              In GB, the most primitive tool, a knife, will get you jail time. In GB, the only thing its subjects could do to protect themselves from knife and gun wielding terrorists is to close their doors and run. People in GB are starting their own neighborhood watches yielding bats to protect from the "ruffians".


                              The majority of Australias gun laws were written before their big mass shooting and passed immediately after. The people have no say in their government just as in GB. Crime has gone up since then, just not with guns, and they have more victims because again, they can't protect themselves.

                              Take your "security" and love it. I will die for my liberty.

                              Also as to the attachment. I am glad your crime is at an all time low. But again, how shall you protect yourself when the morals of those around you diminish? No utopia lasts. I wish it did.

                              Last edited by R3Z3N; 12-15-2018, 12:51 AM.

                              Comment


                                Wow. You're quite a special one R3Z3N. Do you really believe that if the 6 millions Jews, gays, genetically defective people that were killed by Nazis had arms, they would still be alive? Or that if the Armenian civilians that were genocided by the Turks also were armed that they would still be here? Wow. You're definitely rewriting history. I'd call that revisionism even.

                                As for your nice graphic, I suggest you compare mass shootings in the US with Canada, Australia and Great-Britain. Sorry for shaking your beliefs.

                                https://www.quora.com/How-does-Canad...s-shootings-go

                                One mass shooting per week in the US.
                                One every two years in Canada

                                And compare the number of gun-related homicides (per million people) between the US and the rest of the world. The US almost beats all the other countries COMBINED just by itself.
                                Yup. Citizens from a civilized country don't need guns. And with guns, comes violence.



                                Of course hate speech is not a right. Can't just come to the face of somebody and call him a waffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffles, or a fucking waffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffleswaffles and think it's alright ... As for claiming that any free speech is fine even if it allows KKK or neo-nazis groups to spill their hate on Jews, Blacks, Chinks, Wops, gays (basically anyone non-heterosexual White Christian). Damn. You made lost my faith in your humanity.
                                Last edited by Massive Lee; 12-15-2018, 07:12 AM.
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