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    Originally posted by Massive Lee View Post
    the US needs Saudis for two things. First, that they keep selling oil using US currency, which help keep the US currency strong.
    ^This, the dollar is propped up on crude.

    We still import a lot of our crude too, it's cheaper from a lot of places, mostly South America.
    I do things.

    Comment


      Originally posted by mbonder View Post
      There are two schools of thought here as far as intervention/non-intervention

      If you perceive the use of chemical weapons and persecutions that some of these countries commit upon their own people as clear evil, than you would support intervention in the name of protecting those people.

      There is a doctrine within the UN known as the Responsibility to Protect Doctrine, which basically allows countries to defy the sovereignty of other nations in the name of protecting the people within those borders. The origination of this doctrine was the idea that individual people would never be able to stand up to their own governments and military so there had to be a directive in the UN to protect the individual.

      If you don't believe that the protection of the individual is important outside of the US, than you certainly don't believe in intervention. There is a practicality here that asks, what is the alternative? The line can certainly be blurred between Right to Protect and Regime change and there is a large portion of foreign policy study devoted to issues of sovereignty as applied to Right to Protect.

      I have wavered between the between addressing humanitarian concerns and asking if it is even possible to set up any sort of stable society in these areas, so personally, I don't know that I have a solid stance on the issue. In recent times, during the Obama years it appeared as though the Green Revolution would bring regime change within several Middle Eastern countries and so I don't fault the Obama administration for attempting to aid in these movements as they began from within and the US was only involved after they gained momentum rather than being the catalyst for it. The current Syrian Crisis doesn't really fit that mold and I therefore don't really support US involvement there outside of trying to resolve the differences between the Kurds and Turkey as the Kurds have been significant allies of the US and deserve our aid.
      I hear ya.

      Sending in humanization aid is always something we should consider. Boots on the ground should only serve to protect those personnel, not to gain territory.
      I do things.

      Comment


        What do you dudes think about the $12 Billion Trump Bailout to farmers from a few months ago -- and now the additional $16 Billion dollar bailout this last week because of his own self-imposed Trade Wars?

        The trade war is affecting a ton of industries, not just farmers-- shouldn't they be getting bailouts too?

        Why are we going to bailouts? No positive end in the current situation. Everyday working people are continually getting screwed over.
        1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

        Comment


          Not to mention Agriculture is one of the highest subsidized industries in the US.
          1989 BMW 325is | 2019 Ford Ranger FX4
          willschnitz

          Comment


            Originally posted by Wschnitz View Post
            Not to mention Agriculture is one of the highest subsidized industries in the US.
            Rich Farmers, not mom and pop farms, will collect most of Trump's tariff Bailout - LA Times

            $28 Billion in Bailouts ... "the biggest payments will go to the wealthiest farmers, who need them the least"
            Last edited by phillipj; 06-01-2019, 09:04 AM.
            1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

            Comment


              Originally posted by Wschnitz View Post
              Not to mention Agriculture is one of the highest subsidized industries in the US.
              you like to eat dont you.......................... I assume with out having a 500 a week grocery bill to stuff your lone pie hole let alone a family of 3


              this is because the biggest farms that produce the most crops and live stock, have 10s to 100s of millions tied up in land/equipment/supplies and stock. They also have the most to lose, if they miss their payments to the banks too. Since the BIG FARMS produce more stuff they will get more than a small farm running 2 square, or the hobby farmer working 300ac on nights and weekends around their "real job"

              More waxing about how much we think we know about farming........... I guess I should not expect much else around here
              Originally posted by Fusion
              If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
              The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


              The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

              Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
              William Pitt-

              Comment


                Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                you like to eat dont you.......................... I assume with out having a 500 a week grocery bill to stuff your lone pie hole let alone a family of 3




                this is because the biggest farms that produce the most crops and live stock, have 10s to 100s of millions tied up in land/equipment/supplies and stock. They also have the most to lose, if they miss their payments to the banks too. Since the BIG FARMS produce more stuff they will get more than a small farm running 2 square, or the hobby farmer working 300ac on nights and weekends around their "real job"

                More waxing about how much we think we know about farming........... I guess I should not expect much else around here
                It’s just that it’s not fair
                “There is nothing government can give you that it hasn’t taken from you in the first place”
                Sir Winston Churchill

                Comment


                  Sleeve, you haven't actually explained why subsidies to farms are necessary. I mean, isn't that the evil socialism you righties are always railing against?

                  Comment


                    I didnt say they were necessary, but they have been woven into the system in which we all have to play by. In many ways they stabilize the food supply markets by insuring that those producers should be able to get a price for their products that will at least pay the bills... Also helps keep our food supply affordable, so there is always food at the store when you want something to eat that is not going to cost you 40%+ of your weekly income to feed yourself.

                    With out them there would be even fewer family farms left than there are now and most of it would be left to a handful of corporate farms that would have the resources to withstand weather and market forces of sudden change.

                    You want to farm for a living, you need to working around 2 square miles of tillable highly productive real estate (thats about 1280 Acres if you didnt know) how much does land cost per acre or what it cost to lease ???? and if your very lucky at the end of the year, there might be 50-100k left over in profits a 5mil+ investment and 24/7 job you never go home and forget about for a few hours.
                    Last edited by mrsleeve; 06-02-2019, 10:00 PM.
                    Originally posted by Fusion
                    If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                    The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                    The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                    William Pitt-

                    Comment


                      Farm subsidies are why we drive with corn, drink corn, put things in corn made containers, eat popcorn, corn on the cob, creamed corn, corn bread, corn dogs, etc.

                      They should be phased out, or applied as needed to prop up agriculture, and let the market decide the rest.

                      Mr. Sleeve does make a solid point. Farming ain't easy.
                      I do things.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                        I didnt say they were necessary, but they have been woven into the system in which we all have to play by. In many ways they stabilize the food supply markets by insuring that those producers should be able to get a price for their products that will at least pay the bills... Also helps keep our food supply affordable, so there is always food at the store when you want something to eat that is not going to cost you 40%+ of your weekly income to feed yourself.

                        With out them there would be even fewer family farms left than there are now and most of it would be left to a handful of corporate farms that would have the resources to withstand weather and market forces of sudden change.

                        You want to farm for a living, you need to working around 2 square miles of tillable highly productive real estate (thats about 1280 Acres if you didnt know) how much does land cost per acre or what it cost to lease ???? and if your very lucky at the end of the year, there might be 50-100k left over in profits a 5mil+ investment and 24/7 job you never go home and forget about for a few hours.
                        Subsidies keep things affordable. Who knew?

                        How about some subsidies for the cost of medical care?
                        Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
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                        Comment


                          Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                          I didnt say they were necessary, but they have been woven into the system in which we all have to play by. In many ways they stabilize the food supply markets by insuring that those producers should be able to get a price for their products that will at least pay the bills... Also helps keep our food supply affordable, so there is always food at the store when you want something to eat that is not going to cost you 40%+ of your weekly income to feed yourself.

                          With out them there would be even fewer family farms left than there are now and most of it would be left to a handful of corporate farms that would have the resources to withstand weather and market forces of sudden change.

                          You want to farm for a living, you need to working around 2 square miles of tillable highly productive real estate (thats about 1280 Acres if you didnt know) how much does land cost per acre or what it cost to lease ???? and if your very lucky at the end of the year, there might be 50-100k left over in profits a 5mil+ investment and 24/7 job you never go home and forget about for a few hours.
                          I understand how they work, but the reality is, in other industries people would say (mainly those that argue for free market economy), well, let the market decide. For instance, all the local bookstores that went out of business because of Amazon. There weren't subsidies for those businesses to keep them afloat in the face of giant corporate power.

                          The point I am making is this, why is socialism ok in some instances but then terrible in others? Why does it matter that there are family owned farms? We clearly don't care that there aren't family owned health insurance companies, so what's the difference?

                          It seems socialism is ok when it's convenient for those that would normally otherwise speak out against it, in this case it's the farmers that are taking government handouts that everyone else is paying for in taxes. I just find it all curious, there seems to be a cognitive dissonance at play here...

                          Disclaimer: A portion of my family works farms in Central and Southern NJ, a family run business since the 1930s

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                            More waxing about how much we think we know about farming........... I guess I should not expect much else around here
                            pretty rich coming from the guy who "always knows everything about everything" :P
                            past:
                            1989 325is (learner shitbox)
                            1986 325e (turbo dorito)
                            1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
                            current:
                            1985 323i baur (project to resume soon...)
                            2013 ninja 300 (way more fun than a car)

                            Comment


                              It helps to be well rounded when it comes to life


                              Grew up on a working farm and was employed by the 2 neighboring farms that were 10 times the size of ours. Little something I have forgotten more about than many people will ever know.... I do know a lot has changed in the last 25 years in the business as well
                              Originally posted by Fusion
                              If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                              The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                              The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                              Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                              William Pitt-

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                                I didnt say they were necessary, but they have been woven into the system in which we all have to play by.
                                speak for yourself. if you have a backyard, you can grow your own food (i usually wind up with a surplus). if you want a lawn instead, you are choosing to participate in that system.
                                past:
                                1989 325is (learner shitbox)
                                1986 325e (turbo dorito)
                                1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
                                current:
                                1985 323i baur (project to resume soon...)
                                2013 ninja 300 (way more fun than a car)

                                Comment

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