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    but seriously, after like a year and a half, i really did want this thread to be a philosophical discussion and not us making each other poo-laugh and then flinging it

    ICE's actions in particular are relevant to me because my wife's student visa has expired, USCIS has dragged their feet for almost a year now on her work visa, and even that we got married because we each found our respective partner is not a guarantee that they won't knock on our door. i took her to work with me while i was doing maintenance on sunday because they were doing sweeps again, and i heard reports from locals about spotting ICE agents taking action in town, that day

    it's difficult to listen to arguments about how people should "just take the legal route" when they don't have any experience actually helping someone through it

    it's even more difficult for me to imagine how we have pulled the rug out from under people who are legally seeking asylum via a process we have defined:

    by saying "oh you broke the law by doing that thing we said was first on the list, off to a private prison we're paying a contractor for with you"

    i can't back down on the position that that's unethical and illegal, and not only it is our own government practicing fascism, it is coming out of our paychecks to the tune of over $700/day, per detained person. if you don't want to be mad about how we're treating refugees, at least be mad that you're stuck with the fucking bill
    1989 325is (learner shitbox)
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    1985 323i baur (project to resume soon...)
    2013 ninja 300 (way more fun than a car)


      While I get what your saying, and do empathize with you, there is some self responsibility at play. The rules are all laid out. It is not the countries fault some did not follow rules or honor their visa. Your beef however should be with the law-makers and not the men and women who enforce the law.

      I have had many employees over the years in your wife’s shoes and always stressed to them the importance of getting their legal status rectified (inherited employees grandfathered in before e-verify). I am proud to have helped a half dozen guys become citizens who were illegal. The last was about 5 years ago though, and I don’t know how much rules/policies have changed since then. It used to take about 2 years and a good amount of legal fees but it was possible to become a citizen if one was committed. Every one of them were guys who came when they were in their late teens early 20’s with thouht of I will make as much $$$ as I can here until caught. Then life happened for them, got married, had children, and it’s a whole new ballgame at that point. All of a sudden things that didn’t matter before became overwhelming problems based on their new life situation. Anyway, after they passed and received full citizenship we always threw a party for them. It’s awesome to see when that weight is lifted off of them, and their families. Hopefully your wife gets on the right side of the legal system sooner rather than later, I know it’s a major source of stress.
      Last edited by naplesE30; 07-18-2019, 06:24 PM.


        The US issued about non-immigrant 12,000,000 visas last year, with ~600,000 work visas, and ~400,000 student visas within that group, with the largest remainder ~7,000,000 being for travel, and over 1,000,000 (non-border area) travel visas for Mexico alone.

        Basically, if someone wanted to come to the US and could show an immigration officer that they already have a job in their home country, some means of paying for a trip, and the willingness to wait 90ish days for issuance they could easily overstay without risking an illegal entry. As far as I can tell, we have about an 8-10% overstay each year, with the vast majority exiting the country, and I think that's the amount of slippage that seems reasonable, and within the capacity of the economic system to absorb without difficulty. But 200-400,000 more people per year who are forced to work in generally less than optimal positions does not seem like it will be good for anyone, immigrant, or citizen.

        All that said, getting to the US legally and staying here is basically like getting accepted to a good college, you have to have the "right stuff," and if not, it's as if you don't exist. That has to change as we are part of humanity as a whole and really should do as much as possible, without destroying ourselves, to raise others up when others (read their countries) let them down in a big way. At present that seems to mean ~500,000 people per year are allowed to come join us legally, and that's not an insignificant amount of people, but it probably is well within out means help more.

        For reference, that means that we allow .00007 of the world's population to come in each year, or another way 1,400 people per day are approved for legal immigration, which is about enough to replace everyone who dies from cancer in the entire nation.
        Last edited by roguetoaster; 07-18-2019, 06:33 PM.