Let’s talk about Antifa.

[frankenbeemer]

Ok, I would like clarification on what you mean when you say that.

Is it the de-platforming thing? Getting Alex Jones and Richard Spencer off of youtube and twitter?

Maybe it's the idea that Antifa is not capable of accurately determining what is hate speech, yet wants to decide for everyone else.

A progressive Democrat earned his fellow left-wing protesters’ wrath earlier this month for the act of carrying an American flag.

Paul Welch, who describes himself as a “slightly progressive leftist,” was protesting the right-wing group Patriot Prayer’s August 4 rally in Portland, Ore. As he carried his American flag alongside other counterprotesters, several black-clad Antifa members carrying various weapons demanded he hand over the flag, calling it a “fascist symbol.” A viral video captured Welch clinging to his flag as several masked men in makeshift armor try to wrest it from his hands. One of them can be seen hitting him repeatedly and then clubbing him on the back of his head, which causes him to collapse instantly and lie curled up on the ground in his own blood.

“I remember thinking there was a very good chance that I could be beaten to death,” Welch told the Oregonian. A three-inch slash on his head required four staples, and he missed two days of work to heal from the concussion he suffered.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/antifa-members-beat-leftist-protester-holding-american-flag/

[gwb72tii]

Ok, I would like clarification on what you mean when you say that.

Is it the de-platforming thing? Getting Alex Jones and Richard Spencer off of youtube and twitter?

in other words, the end justifies the means?

[cale]

Is it the de-platforming thing? Getting Alex Jones and Richard Spencer off of youtube and twitter?

You try just as hard to get radical Islamist off twitter? You know, people who are actually inciting murder and have blood on their hands?

[decay]

Maybe it's the idea that Antifa is not capable of accurately determining what is hate speech, yet wants to decide for everyone else.

A progressive Democrat earned his fellow left-wing protesters’ wrath earlier this month for the act of carrying an American flag.

Paul Welch, who describes himself as a “slightly progressive leftist,” was protesting the right-wing group Patriot Prayer’s August 4 rally in Portland, Ore. As he carried his American flag alongside other counterprotesters, several black-clad Antifa members carrying various weapons demanded he hand over the flag, calling it a “fascist symbol.” A viral video captured Welch clinging to his flag as several masked men in makeshift armor try to wrest it from his hands. One of them can be seen hitting him repeatedly and then clubbing him on the back of his head, which causes him to collapse instantly and lie curled up on the ground in his own blood.

“I remember thinking there was a very good chance that I could be beaten to death,” Welch told the Oregonian. A three-inch slash on his head required four staples, and he missed two days of work to heal from the concussion he suffered.
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/...american-flag/

this almost happened to me.

at a protest in oakland for a black girl who'd been murdered by a white supremacist at a public transit station, the proud boys showed up and got swarmed on. not just by antifa, but pretty much everyone present for the event.

in the rush to confront them, someone pulled my flashlight/stun device out of my pocket- i turned around to see who it was and "hello, black panthers". six of them, all bigger than me (i'm 6'3"), looking pissed off.

i won't pretend that wasn't an "oh fuck might die" moment.

i pointed at my three-arrows shirt (see avatar) and shouted "friendly!" twice. they got it, gave me back my flashlight, bro-hugs were exchanged, and we moved towards the front.

yeah, i get it, it is unfortunate that people are so pissed off that civil and political discourse is devolving into street violence, and for your own safety, if you're going to protest, you have to make *absolutely fucking clear* what your position is- but my anecdote for that day is:

the only person who hit me was a pig.

[decay]

You try just as hard to get radical Islamist off twitter? You know, people who are actually inciting murder and have blood on their hands?

please refer back to the part where i explained that there is *tons* of fucked-up shit going on in the world and if you're not going to succumb to fatigue, exhaustion, and apathy, you gotta pick your battles, mahdood

[decay]

in other words, the end justifies the means?

you haven't answered my question.

[cale]

please refer back to the part where i explained that there is *tons* of fucked-up shit going on in the world and if you're not going to succumb to fatigue, exhaustion, and apathy, you gotta pick your battles, mahdood

So the battle you chose to pursue is words that scare you vs actual use of violence, k.

[decay]

So the battle you chose to pursue is words that scare you vs actual use of violence, k.

...where did you get that, and did you miss the story of how i got hit by a cop? or the part where i'm an army veteran who had contact with al-queda in iraq?

like, do you actually read, or just try to cherry-pick what fits your chosen narrative?

[decay]

also gotta say, i love how people are decrying our use of violence while simultaneously arguing for 2A rights in the trump thread.

pick a position. you don't get to allocate weapons based on political ideology.

[cale]

...where did you get that, and did you miss the story of how i got hit by a cop? or the part where i'm an army veteran who had contact with al-queda in iraq?

like, do you actually read, or just try to cherry-pick what fits your chosen narrative?

You're right, Alex Jones sent that cop to hit you.

Your prior service is a moot point. The majority of Antifa members will never do such a thing, they will not exhaust any effort to suppress truly despicable groups on Twitter when there are Alex Jones' to attack.

i love how people

Who are these people specifically?

[decay]

Your prior service is a moot point.

no it isn't, because you specifically are making the claim that i'm somehow afraid of violence.

we can have the discussion about whether that violence is okay, warranted, or justified, and more importantly, what gave rise to it.

since it seems you need the actual question explained to you, though- it was what tactics are gwb is calling fascist. the no-platforming thing is the first one i could think of, as far as what we actually do. i thought it might be that, so i asked a question in response, rather than pre-determining his answer and putting it in his mouth.

try to follow that example.

Who are these people specifically?

they have posted in the thread today, so i suggest you go... read? i feel like your brain would be of more value if it took more input and made less output.

[E30 Wagen]

this almost happened to me.

at a protest in oakland for a black girl who'd been murdered by a white supremacist at a public transit station, the proud boys showed up and got swarmed on. not just by antifa, but pretty much everyone present for the event.

in the rush to confront them, someone pulled my flashlight/stun device out of my pocket- i turned around to see who it was and "hello, black panthers". six of them, all bigger than me (i'm 6'3"), looking pissed off.

i won't pretend that wasn't an "oh fuck might die" moment.

i pointed at my three-arrows shirt (see avatar) and shouted "friendly!" twice. they got it, gave me back my flashlight, bro-hugs were exchanged, and we moved towards the front.

yeah, i get it, it is unfortunate that people are so pissed off that civil and political discourse is devolving into street violence, and for your own safety, if you're going to protest, you have to make *absolutely fucking clear* what your position is- but my anecdote for that day is:

the only person who hit me was a pig.

See, the feeling you had when those guys were staring you down is similar to how the American public feels about antifa. It's the "If you're not part of the solution, then you're part of the problem" mob mentality which is so dangerous. It opens the door to anybody looking for a fight, and paints a target on anybody not explicitly in your camp. I mean, what if those dudes had just started swinging as soon as they had their chance? Once you'd woken up in the hospital would you forgive them and chalk it up to a honest mistake? It's no wonder that most people watching clashes between antifa and police officers are going to side with law enforcement that is guided by protocol and do nothing to provoke violence. If you're going to get in an officer's face, disobey his orders, and shout "Fuck you" like some insolent teenager then you deserve to be clocked.

And calling police officers pigs is an insult to our entire country. Consider why millions of people are desperate to flee their countries and come here. It's because their countries are crime-ridden shit holes. And why is our country so safe in comparison? I'll let you puzzle that out.

[decay]

If you're going to get in an officer's face, disobey his orders, and shout "Fuck you" like some insolent teenager then you deserve to be clocked.

i was obeying his orders to move. apparently just not fast enough, because i was concerned about not knocking over and trampling the people behind me. that's what earned me a hit.

And calling police officers pigs is an insult to our entire country. Consider why millions of people are desperate to flee their countries and come here. It's because their countries are crime-ridden shit holes. And why is our country so safe in comparison? I'll let you puzzle that out.

no it isn't. *you* can be offended if you choose to. two members of the PD in question are up on charges for child sex trafficking, so i'll call them pigs if i feel like it.

also, your state contains the murder capital of the country so you probably shouldn't be calling anywhere else a shithole until you get that mess fixed.

[cale]

no it isn't, because you specifically are making the claim that i'm somehow afraid of violence.

No, I'm not and I've made no comment that suggests this. I've said you chose to fight words that scare you vs fighting violence, implying you decide targets poorly. There's nothing in there about being scared to use violence yourself.

they have posted in the thread today, so i suggest you go... read? i feel like your brain would be of more value if it took more input and made less output.

I'm actually trying to get some context on who you were referring to specifically but sure, speak in broad terms so you don't actually have to address individuals, painting everyone with the same brush. You're the only one here who actually belongs to an identifiable group.

I feel like you're only a few posts away from calling out others for the insults once again...

[E30 Wagen]

I'm interested in your response to the rest of that paragraph and how you continue to justify the actions of antifa and your involvement with them despite nearly being attacked.

no it isn't. *you* can be offended if you choose to. two members of the PD in question are up on charges for child sex trafficking, so i'll call them pigs if i feel like it.

Am I supposed to be shocked that there are bad cops? Go ahead and call people like that pigs but how about having some respect for the good ones. Really, if police officers themselves are prosecuted for criminal behavior then that only reinforces the integrity of our law enforcement and undermines your conspiracy that our gov't is transforming into a fascist state.

also, your state contains the murder capital of the country so you probably shouldn't be calling anywhere else a shithole until you get that mess fixed.

So, is that mess fixed with more law enforcement or less? What do you think is necessary to maintain peace in a country? Are we in the US and Europe just naturally more chill but have a police force just for the hell of it? What is an anarchist's solution to fighting crime?