Let’s talk about Antifa.

[myinfernalbmw]

covered already. he's an agitator that threw himself in the middle of a situation for attention. so is that guy who was walking around with an asp baton looking for people to hit and wondered why he walked away bleeding.

So by this logic people should be able to assault anyone that is "agitating" them? Was there any video of the old guy trying to hit anyone with the baton? All I saw was an old guy that got suckered by no less than 6 elite oper9ers. Even if he was walking down the middle of the street, swinging it around while shouting dissent, how do you try to argue being attacked like that is even remotely morally just?

[decay]

I don't remember the Nazi's giving Jew's an option to voluntarily withdraw their application for immigrant/refugee status and allowing people to leave the centers and return home.

source? i would like to see a documented example of that happening

So by this logic people should be able to assault anyone that is "agitating" them? Was there any video of the old guy trying to hit anyone with the baton? All I saw was an old guy that got suckered by no less than 6 elite oper9ers. Even if he was walking down the middle of the street, swinging it around while shouting dissent, how do you try to argue being attacked like that is even remotely morally just?

so your chosen media outlet didn't show you the part where he was an aggressor because him being a victim fits their narrative better

imagine my surprise

anyway, this was all discussed upthread already

[decay]

Yes, this is a fair comparison.

I didn't realize 6 million Jewish people and 6 million handicapped, homosexual, and other "undesireables" simply had to turn around and not illegally enter another country.


The far-reaching exaggeration is why people that make these comparisons aren't taken seriously by the vast majority of the population.

No one is saying they conditions are good, but let's quit pretending it's a fucking genocide.

the nazis ran extermination camps

these are concentration camps- look for other historical examples for a comparison

maybe the way we interned japanese folks during WW2 works for you? those were definitely concentration camps

(though given that people are dying in them, you are almost begging the question of when does it go from the latter to the former)

[cale]

source? i would like to see a documented example of that happening

Took seconds on google to find. I'll accept your lack of knowledge on the matter as reason why you chose to foolishly suggest these places are nearly extermination camps the Third Reich was responsible for.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/2019/05/08/more-detained-immigrants-are-giving-up-court-fights-and-leaving-the-u-s

these are concentration camps- look for other historical examples for a comparison

maybe the way we interned japanese folks during WW2 works for you? those were definitely concentration camps

(though given that people are dying in them, you are almost begging the question of when does it go from the latter to the former)

So folks who've spent weeks travelling under poor conditions, exposing themselves to illness and weakening their immune systems are at risk? Next you're going to tell me people in hospitals are at risk due to concentrations of illness and suffer from similar statistics of death (spoiler, they do).

It goes from the latter to the former when the intent is to exterminate, not when people are dying in statistically insignificant numbers.

[cale]

Fortunately for those snatched from their err..... homes, and shipped via rail to the extermination camps will soon be liberated. These pipehitters are on their way, most of them at least. The lady in the bear shirt is due to give birth at any moment so may need to drop out of the op.

/cheapshot

[z31maniac]

the nazis ran extermination camps

these are concentration camps- look for other historical examples for a comparison

maybe the way we interned japanese folks during WW2 works for you? those were definitely concentration camps

(though given that people are dying in them, you are almost begging the question of when does it go from the latter to the former)

Intent. Not difficult. I'm surprised you aren't calling out the DNC for sharing "extermination camp" pictures to detest Trump, when they were actually showing pictures of the camps under Obama.

And your own words said, "dangerously close to becoming extermination camps" which is such a ludicrous amount of hyperbole, I have to believe you're trolling me.

I disagree with many your "values," but holding illegal immigrants in shitty camps being compared to "the deliberate killing of a large group of people, especially those of a particular ethnic group or nation."

This is why it's impossible to have any reasonable discourse. Cattle-hearding people, working them in slave camps to the point of starvation, then stripping them and gassing them to death is in NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, comparable to what's happening on the border right now.

[decay]

And your own words said, "dangerously close to becoming extermination camps" which is such a ludicrous amount of hyperbole, I have to believe you're trolling me.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/24-immigrants-have-died-ice-custody-during-trump-administration-n1015291

not trolling. again, the question is "where is your personal threshold"

This is why it's impossible to have any reasonable discourse. Cattle-hearding people, working them in slave camps to the point of starvation, then stripping them and gassing them to death is in NO WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM, comparable to what's happening on the border right now.

once again. we are talking about the difference between concentration camps and extermination camps. you don't have to actively murder people to fit the definition of the former. that's why i mentioned the japanese internment camps during WW2. we have done this before, and i think any native american aware of their own history will tell you the same

you think it's just on the border? it is all over the country, and they'll show you where themselves

https://www.ice.gov/detention-facilities

[cale]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/imm...ation-n1015291

not trolling. again, the question is "where is your personal threshold"



once again. we are talking about the difference between concentration camps and extermination camps. you don't have to actively murder people to fit the definition of the former. that's why i mentioned the japanese internment camps during WW2. we have done this before, and i think any native american aware of their own history will tell you the same

you think it's just on the border? it is all over the country, and they'll show you where themselves

https://www.ice.gov/detention-facilities

Why not protest the domestic prison system then? They have death rates 100x that of ICE detention centers. Or how about the hospitals we entrust our families with at their weakest? They also have higher mortality rates than detention centers, and I'm talking about medical error and malpractice. By your logic, the average American hospital wing is no different than Mengele's experimentation wards. Intent clearly doesn't matter, so why not throw out some more insane comparisons?

Using detention center deaths as a rallying point to fight the powers that be is as silly as the fanaticism surrounding the erection of a border wall being the solution to immigration issues.

[decay]

Why not protest the domestic prison system then?

oh, thank you for pointing out a problem that activists have been working on for decades, that's super insightful

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/index.html

yeah we're already doing that

so your objection is that we're protesting a new flavor of the same problem?

[MrBurgundy]

sleeve

"burying your head in the sand" is pretending it's not fucked up that these agencies are now keeping people in concentration camps that are dangerously close to becoming extermination camps because of the lack of care provided for those detained there

what's obtuse is to pretend that's not fucked up, whatever three-letter agency's watch it happens under

Yeah.. breaking the law, then getting punished for it is sooo fucked up.

If only there was a way to avoid ending up in there...

...If only...

[decay]

Yeah.. breaking the law, then getting punished for it is sooo fucked up.

If only there was a way to avoid ending up in there...

...If only...

we can have a discussion about whether the laws responsible for creating our current policy are just and should exist, if you're ready to hear about how our own government created the forced migration problem by destabilizing central america

[cale]

oh, thank you for pointing out a problem that activists have been working on for decades, that's super insightful

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/index.html

yeah we're already doing that

so your objection is that we're protesting a new flavor of the same problem?

I'm not talking about activists who organize and use the proper channels that actually succeed at effecting change, I'm asking why Antifa isn't taking to the streets of Portland for this purpose? When their sights are time after time set on headline topics, one can't help but develop a lack of respect for a group (or not a group?) who's aspirations are so blatantly shallow and narrowly focused.

[myinfernalbmw]

so your chosen media outlet didn't show you the part where he was an aggressor because him being a victim fits their narrative better

imagine my surprise

anyway, this was all discussed upthread already

Which I read, but I either missed your supporting argument, or thought that "if you go looking for trouble, you're probably going to find it." may have been an oversimplification. If it's really as simple as that, I don't see how you can squeal injustice when police start popping off CS and blasting people with pepper spray who don't leave after given ample warning.

I don't rely on any specific media outlet. I just searched "man hit by crowbar portland" on youtube. The video I saw started where the old guy was being attacked, and I couldn't find any longer versions, which is why I asked if there was any video showing what you're claiming. I still don't see how you can pretend to maintain any semblance of moral high ground, while continuing to beat someone who is already well on his way to being totally incapacitated.

the nazis ran extermination camps

these are concentration camps- look for other historical examples for a comparison

maybe the way we interned japanese folks during WW2 works for you? those were definitely concentration camps

(though given that people are dying in them, you are almost begging the question of when does it go from the latter to the former)

By the literal Webster definition, sure. The difference being the flagrantly disingenuous intent of its use- as already pointed out. Conflating Nazi death camps to current border detention facilities is laughably idiotic.

[MrBurgundy]

once again. if you go looking for trouble, you're probably going to find it.

Why don't you apply this logic to people who knowingly enter illegally?

[frankenbeemer]

the nazis ran extermination camps

these are concentration camps- look for other historical examples for a comparison

maybe the way we interned japanese folks during WW2 works for you? those were definitely concentration camps

(though given that people are dying in them, you are almost begging the question of when does it go from the latter to the former)

FYI

Begging the question is not the same as raising the question.

https://examples.yourdictionary.com/reference/examples/begging-the-question-fallacy-examples.html

I know it's a tempting cliche, but such misuse tends to weaken your already fragile argument.