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  • gwb72tii
    replied
    There’s no correction for McCarthyism and fearmongering.

    This is a pretty good self analysis of the press and it’s coverage of "Russiagate" now that we know there will be no collusion or treason or obstruction of justice indictment of anyone.

    https://taibbi.substack.com/p/russia...imes-a-million

    Leave a comment:


  • TimeMachinE30
    replied
    Originally posted by phillipj View Post
    Well, this in our case does affect us nationally, through tax dollars and possibly another war.

    But you raise a possibly good point! -- one I think I've gradually stumbled to, unhappily. What's best might be to tune these things out. Ignore "the News". Ignore Complainers. Ignore the Angry people. Ignore anyone trying to scare you about a danger that is not Clear and Present.

    Surround yourself the best you can with good people in your local community that you can help and that can help you, that have your back. Focus on your family and what you can do to make you better, definitely don't go around telling other people what to think or do. There's no time for that.

    (In that spirit I'm leaving this thread!!)
    Read Amusing Ourselves to Death by Neil Postman.

    The decline began with the telegraph. In short order, one could learn of what was happening a week's train ride away..... And so we became amused in things which didn't have any purpose... Today we know what car snooky drove to meet with her boy toy while seeing that Kardashians are totally raving over a purse all the while ignoring the friends, family and brother and sisters there with us.

    Leave a comment:


  • mrsleeve
    replied
    Originally posted by CarpHunter View Post
    Yes they did. In 2013, well before trump even announced his plans to run. They lied about the use of the patriot act. Something put in place by GB jr. Also of note is they were both appointed by GB jr. So nothing to do with trump. And neither was charged.
    Correct they lied a lot whats your point, its what they do.



    Originally posted by CarpHunter
    Again, done under the patriot act. Years before Obama was in office. Not to say the practice didn't continue under him. But this had become standard practice before he was in office.
    But used with impunity against political rivals, under the O admin. Used as tool for finding people trying to blow up shit under JR's tenure, not saying there was not improperer use during 43's time in office, but definitely not to the extent the O man was using it.



    Originally posted by CarpHunter
    Lawyer Marc Elias hired Fusion GPS, which subcontracted the work to Steele. Former head of Russian affairs for Mi6. Hillary campaign didn't know steele was the one investigating, steele didn't know it was for the Hillary campaign. Once elected, funding by Hillary campaign stopped. Then all data was handed over to British and US intelligence. Doing opposition research during a campaign in standard.
    This is called "plausible deniability" and "degrees of separation" to keep people out of prison. This is being truthful, but also misleading at the same time, its why the "Opposition research" was "subbed out" redundantly so all parties involved have the ability to say they didnt know what the other hands were doing so they avoid the repercussions for making up a bunch of shit and still passing it off as fact.......



    Originally posted by CarpHunter
    Mind you, I'm not looking for trump's head. If he didn't do anything, then leave him alone, if he did do something, send him to prison. But until charges are filed, no one knows.
    On this point we agree on, why isnt Hillary there already then ? ;)
    Last edited by mrsleeve; 02-20-2019, 02:19 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • CarpHunter
    replied
    The author says clapper and Brennan lied to Congress. Pretty much proven without argument
    Yes they did. In 2013, well before trump even announced his plans to run. They lied about the use of the patriot act. Something put in place by GB jr. Also of note is they were both appointed by GB jr. So nothing to do with trump. And neither was charged.

    The author says Obama admin officials unmasked us citizens which is proven fact
    Again, done under the patriot act. Years before Obama was in office. Not to say the practice didn't continue under him. But this had become standard practice before he was in office.

    The author says Clinton’s campaign hired a foreign spook to source Russian spooks to throw dirt on trump. Fact.
    Lawyer Marc Elias hired Fusion GPS, which subcontracted the work to Steele. Former head of Russian affairs for Mi6. Hillary campaign didn't know steele was the one investigating, steele didn't know it was for the Hillary campaign. Once elected, funding by Hillary campaign stopped. Then all data was handed over to British and US intelligence. Doing opposition research during a campaign in standard.

    Again, what your alleging is a giant conspiracy started years before trump announced his plans to run.

    What's more believable? A giant conspiracy involving thousands of people across multiple industries, government offices, all started years before the election. With no one talking mind you. Or that a guy with a proven history of lying and doing shady shit, is lying about doing shady shit?

    Mind you, I'm not looking for trump's head. If he didn't do anything, then leave him alone, if he did do something, send him to prison. But until charges are filed, no one knows.

    Leave a comment:


  • phillipj
    replied
    Originally posted by TimeMachinE30 View Post
    And so, how much do we care about foreign affairs? In a Timothy Leary way.. Tune out, turn off?

    How much value do we put to these foreign affairs rather than our own domestic (both home nation and HOME). Really an argument to be made if we focused on both homes we could be better off, fulfilled.
    Well, this in our case does affect us nationally, through tax dollars and possibly another war.

    But you raise a possibly good point! -- one I think I've gradually stumbled to, unhappily. What's best might be to tune these things out. Ignore "the News". Ignore Complainers. Ignore the Angry people. Ignore anyone trying to scare you about a danger that is not Clear and Present.

    Surround yourself the best you can with good people in your local community that you can help and that can help you, that have your back. Focus on your family and what you can do to make you better, definitely don't go around telling other people what to think or do. There's no time for that.

    (In that spirit I'm leaving this thread!!)

    Leave a comment:


  • TimeMachinE30
    replied
    Originally posted by phillipj View Post
    I very much agree that this would be best; way more worthwhile!

    In that exact spirit, to elevate the discussion, I submit one story that is amazingly spun / misreported / propagandized is the current situation in Venezuela. This has all the echoes of Iraq and also our very dirty history with Coups and illegal militarized regime changes in surrounding South & Central America. I would urge people to look a little deeper on that.

    We are very much "being Played" by the President, by the GOP & Democratic leadership and by Corporate / mainstream news. They are not being honest about it.
    And so, how much do we care about foreign affairs? In a Timothy Leary way.. Tune out, turn off?

    How much value do we put to these foreign affairs rather than our own domestic (both home nation and HOME). Really an argument to be made if we focused on both homes we could be better off, fulfilled.

    Leave a comment:


  • phillipj
    replied
    Originally posted by TimeMachinE30 View Post
    This thread is different in a very healthy way.

    It calls out the need to stop being so blind and see what is really going on.
    I very much agree that this would be best; way more worthwhile!

    In that exact spirit, to elevate the discussion, I submit one story that is amazingly spun / misreported / propagandized is the current situation in Venezuela. This has all the echoes of Iraq and also our very dirty history with Coups and illegal militarized regime changes in surrounding South & Central America. I would urge people to look a little deeper on that.

    We are very much "being Played" by the President, by the GOP & Democratic leadership and by Corporate / mainstream news. They are not being honest about it.

    Leave a comment:


  • phillipj
    replied
    "We are all being played" is the title of this thread. Flip it on its head and the truth here is that OP is just one of many "being played" -- in this case by Trump.

    A lot of people here might say it is sad, but it's also completely understandable. So many of us have lost faith in our system and political leadership that you naturally get desperate for any alternative. Another unfortunate phenomenon is that politics has become more like Football. It's Us vs. Them and any sense of right or wrong goes totally out the window. Values go out the window.
    Last edited by phillipj; 02-19-2019, 10:15 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • TimeMachinE30
    replied
    no matter your political leanings/beliefs


    This isn't a need to spiral down one of the I am for the R/D/Is path. There are those threads here to type away and be confirmed by your like minded internet friends and gain the confirmation you crave.

    This thread is different in a very healthy way.

    It calls out the need to stop being so blind and see what is really going on.

    Leave a comment:


  • phillipj
    replied
    Originally posted by TimeMachinE30 View Post
    Look at the Jussie Smollet case.

    Turn off your TVs. Stop listening to media. The weatherman is wrong nearly all the time anyhow. The rest is just interference.

    Americans..maybe even humans ..are highly suggestible. Be careful where it leads you without even thinking.

    Don't turn this into a politics thread as much as a bigger picture thread. If you want to bash DJT, r3v already made that outlet available.

    This genesis of this was a 'Politics" thread! - see: original post and poster

    Leave a comment:


  • TimeMachinE30
    replied
    Look at the Jussie Smollet case.

    Turn off your TVs. Stop listening to media. The weatherman is wrong nearly all the time anyhow. The rest is just interference.

    Americans..maybe even humans ..are highly suggestible. Be careful where it leads you without even thinking.

    Don't turn this into a politics thread as much as a bigger picture thread. If you want to bash DJT, r3v already made that outlet available.

    Leave a comment:


  • gwb72tii
    replied
    Originally posted by CarpHunter View Post
    I don't think you know how this works. I don't have to prove shit, I'm not the one alleging anything. You and the author are. The burden of proof is on you. You need to prove your points valid with actual facts. The author alleges a lot, without providing any facts or supporting info, just conjecture and conspiracy. You do the same.

    I alleged nothing, I stated that people have gone to prison due to the Mueller investigation. That is fact. I also stated that no charges were brought in the multiple attempts in the Hillary email investigation. That also is fact. So I met my burden of proof. Try doing the same.
    Ok I’ll start.

    The author says clapper and Brennan lied to Congress. Pretty much proven without argument.

    The author says Obama admin officials unmasked us citizens which is proven fact.

    The author says Clinton’s campaign hired a foreign spook to source Russian spooks to throw dirt on trump. Fact.

    Etc a naseum

    And next time how about looking thru threads before you post. You’ll find I’m no fan of trump the man. I am in fact a big ass fan of how he’s governed so far.

    Leave a comment:


  • CarpHunter
    replied
    I don't think you know how this works. I don't have to prove shit, I'm not the one alleging anything. You and the author are. The burden of proof is on you. You need to prove your points valid with actual facts. The author alleges a lot, without providing any facts or supporting info, just conjecture and conspiracy. You do the same.

    I alleged nothing, I stated that people have gone to prison due to the Mueller investigation. That is fact. I also stated that no charges were brought in the multiple attempts in the Hillary email investigation. That also is fact. So I met my burden of proof. Try doing the same.

    Leave a comment:


  • gwb72tii
    replied
    Originally posted by CarpHunter View Post
    Ok gwb, I'll bite. I did read the article. Just not sure where to start.

    1st, your source is some weird, obscure and obviously right wing biased conspiracy site.

    2nd, this isn't a news article, it's an opinion piece. That's why there's no supporting info. No quotes, no data, nothing. Just a bunch of conspiracy bs.

    If you want to have real conversations about stuff, you can't pull this shit man. It severely damages any credibility you might have.

    I get your a trump supporter, and that's fine. But what you're insinuating is that there's a global conspiracy against trump, including republicans. His own party. Which i guess goes hand in hand with your global conspiracy on climate change. But i thought trump was the head of his own secret cabal trying to overthrow the pedophiles?

    The reality is people have, will, and are going to prison because of the Mueller investigation. We all have to wait till it's done to see if trump is charged. Where as your side has done multiple attempts at the Hillary email thing and never once come up with anything. Doing it several more times won't change that. Thus the reality is that the Hillary stuff is bs, where as the Russia thing is legit.

    Remember your welcome to your own opinion, not your own facts. Facts are what create and mold opinions, not the other way around.
    Ok I’ll bite

    First off I’d suggest you read up on what has actually happened, as you say facts.

    And then pick anything the author alleges and call him out for being wrong, and why. As you say, facts.

    Leave a comment:


  • CarpHunter
    replied
    Ok gwb, I'll bite. I did read the article. Just not sure where to start.

    1st, your source is some weird, obscure and obviously right wing biased conspiracy site.

    2nd, this isn't a news article, it's an opinion piece. That's why there's no supporting info. No quotes, no data, nothing. Just a bunch of conspiracy bs.

    If you want to have real conversations about stuff, you can't pull this shit man. It severely damages any credibility you might have.

    I get your a trump supporter, and that's fine. But what you're insinuating is that there's a global conspiracy against trump, including republicans. His own party. Which i guess goes hand in hand with your global conspiracy on climate change. But i thought trump was the head of his own secret cabal trying to overthrow the pedophiles?

    The reality is people have, will, and are going to prison because of the Mueller investigation. We all have to wait till it's done to see if trump is charged. Where as your side has done multiple attempts at the Hillary email thing and never once come up with anything. Doing it several more times won't change that. Thus the reality is that the Hillary stuff is bs, where as the Russia thing is legit.

    Remember your welcome to your own opinion, not your own facts. Facts are what create and mold opinions, not the other way around.

    Leave a comment:

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