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    Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
    Given this has to do with some of the core issues most of these current D. 2020 hopefulls are hanging their hats on to get into the oval office I figured this is a thread as any other post it in.

    So it seems the shit that the far leftists are pushing so hard for is very very expensive and is breaking down in one of their most shining examples they point to as how things should be done.

    ...

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47496326
    Originally posted by mbonder View Post
    Guaranteed minimum income part of that seems goofy to me. ...

    Hm. The only D candidate talking about "Universal Basic Income" is Andrew Yang -- a businessman/entrepreneur, def. not a typical politician -- kind of an unknown to everybody.

    I actually saw my first Yang2020 bumper sticker the other day, piqued my interest, looked him up. When he talks about "UBI" it's the first time I heard any plans in some detail and arguments for it, good to read through:

    https://www.yang2020.com/what-is-ubi/
    1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

    Comment


      ^
      I was not so much pointing out the "basic income" to this, but how many have jumped in behind AOC "Green New Deal"............... Many of them was the point.
      Originally posted by Fusion
      If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
      The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


      The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

      Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
      William Pitt-

      Comment


        Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
        ^
        I was not so much pointing out the "basic income" to this, but how many have jumped in behind AOC "Green New Deal"............... Many of them was the point.
        Was your point just to say that any idea popular with the Democrats (green energy policy, medicare for all, affordable education, etc) would likely just be a failure?

        ...

        The Finland article you linked to is sort of interesting to me mainly because people in their government set out on a worthwhile goal- making their healthcare system run more efficient -- and when their ideas didn't work, they took responsibility and resigned. Sort of odd and refreshing that they did. Imagine if our politicians did that here! Yes please.
        1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

        Comment


          Then you didnt really gather the gist of the article. Also the current crop of Dem proposed ideas are a fantasy that have no real basis for application to the real world and you know this

          Not any idea, The general middle class Finish family pays OVER 50% in income taxes to the central/local govts, this does not include the 24% general VAT and other consumption/use taxes that fund these systems. The "RICHERS" pay far more.

          Yet despite all of this their healthcare and pension costs have run away from them. Theses are the ideas that many of the current D's are pushing to get into the Oval yet here we have yet another example where these very same ideas have failed, in one of the better executed in practice examples of attempting such a system. The reforms were not supposed to take full effect until this year IIRC when they were passed in what 2016

          The point is that one of the SHINING examples of Socialized medicine and govt supplied retirement is breaking the Finish system. The secondary point of me posting this is why did I have to post the BBC ( I think Reutres picked it up latter) link, and this has been completely ignored by the media in the USA (at the time I posted) ???? Some how I doubt its because the lions share of people here can point to Finland on a globe........

          Kinda like when they all but ignore a multiple murder that's not committed with an AR15 heat seeking lazer tracking super killer infinite ammo auto god mode gun
          Last edited by mrsleeve; 03-19-2019, 11:51 AM.
          Originally posted by Fusion
          If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
          The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


          The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

          Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
          William Pitt-

          Comment


            Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
            Then you didnt really gather the gist of the article. Also the current crop of Dem proposed ideas are a fantasy that have no real basis for application to the real world and you know this

            Not any idea, The general middle class Finish family pays OVER 50% in income taxes to the central/local govts, this does not include the 24% general VAT and other consumption/use taxes that fund these systems. The "RICHERS" pay far more.

            Yet despite all of this their healthcare and pension costs have run away from them. Theses are the ideas that many of the current D's are pushing to get into the Oval yet here we have yet another example where these very same ideas have failed, in one of the better executed in practice examples of attempting such a system. The reforms were not supposed to take full effect until this year IIRC when they were passed in what 2016

            The point is that one of the SHINING examples of Socialized medicine and govt supplied retirement is breaking the Finish system. The secondary point of me posting this is why did I have to post the BBC ( I think Reutres picked it up latter) link, and this has been completely ignored by the media in the USA (at the time I posted) ???? Some how I doubt its because the lions share of people here can point to Finland on a globe........

            Kinda like when they all but ignore a multiple murder that's not committed with an AR15 heat seeking lazer tracking super killer infinite ammo auto god mode gun
            ha. No way, man. Tell it like it is.

            Finland, among all other Nordic countries, have very good universal healthcare programs. They cost more and more money lately because costs are increasing rapidly and the average age of their population is rising rapidly. Ok. In Finland's case, some people in their govm't set out to make it better, they failed, they took responsibility and resigned. Ok, great for Finland.

            The Green New Deal idea is just an outline, btw. ie. a goal, a concept, not a neatly defined, budgeted plan. It's about priorities.

            Saying any of these things "will cost too much" or are "pie in the sky" or whatever is a bunch of bullshit. Cost too much compared to what? The increase in our Military budget last year alone was DOUBLE what would've paid for Sanders' tuition plan.

            We are definitely getting swindled, and for all the wrong things.
            1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

            Comment


              comparing the economy of the US and the economy of Finalnd....right.
              Let's get back on topic.

              Warren is asking to end electoral college.
              Beto raises $6.1m in 24 hours.

              Comment


                & I'll agree with you that a lot of these plans are "fantasy" to many of these candidates, because I'm not so sure they are serious about these priorities. Just something to say to get elected, then they can pay back their cronies.

                The only one I tend to believe is Sanders, simply because he hasn't changed his tune all these years. He's the OG.
                1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

                Comment


                  Originally posted by saucers View Post
                  comparing the economy of the US and the economy of Finalnd....right.
                  Let's get back on topic.

                  Warren is asking to end electoral college.
                  Beto raises $6.1m in 24 hours.
                  Truth.


                  ...

                  What's the consensus here? End the electoral college a good idea?
                  Why keep it?
                  1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

                  Comment


                    Green New Deal is projected to cost about 50% of the USA's annual GDP over 10 years. you tell me how thats going to work out.

                    Yes economics of scale play here, And due to the social programs and despite the high taxation as of 2017 public debt to GDP was about 61%. is that what we really want here in the us

                    Edit: Ending the electoral college is going to take a Consutional amendment....... Is not stopping the Ds from trying to end run around it that will not hold up even if there becomes enough states to take part in it.

                    https://www.9news.com/article/news/c...b-39b76e76ec9b

                    Electoral college did what it was designed to do last cycle.... leave it alone. Remember Lincoln didn't win the popular vote either
                    Last edited by mrsleeve; 03-19-2019, 01:36 PM.
                    Originally posted by Fusion
                    If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                    The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                    The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                    Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                    William Pitt-

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
                      Green New Deal is projected to cost about 50% of the USA's annual GDP over 10 years. you tell me how thats going to work out.
                      we can start with eliminating subsidies for already massively profitable petroleum companies, for one.
                      past:
                      1989 325is (learner shitbox)
                      1986 325e (turbo dorito)
                      1991 318ic (5-lug ITB)
                      current:
                      1985 323i baur (project to resume soon...)
                      2013 ninja 300 (way more fun than a car)

                      Comment


                        gee... where can we get money to help out our citizens....

                        https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0...nary-Breakdown
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                        Comment


                          Where to start, where to start...

                          Ok, on the Finland deal. It's pretty easy guys, it's not politics, it's not financial, it's not anything complicated. The Finnish, like most of the rest of the world made a simple choice. Do we, or don't we give a shit about our fellow citizens? They picked the former. Simple.

                          That's all it comes down to, they see the benefit of investing in their people. And all the cost benefits that come with that.



                          Onto the subject at hand.
                          I would recommend checking out Joe Rogan's podcast with Andrew Yung. The 3 hour format really allows more indepth conversations about his ideas. Found it well worth the listen. And i don't even have a dog in the race when it comes to american elections.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by 2mAn View Post
                            gee... where can we get money to help out our citizens....

                            https://www.pgpf.org/chart-archive/0...nary-Breakdown
                            x1000


                            As said, the bump in the defense budget last year alone was 2x what it would've been for free public tuition. so, where the f are the country's priorities?
                            1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

                            Comment


                              ^
                              Article 1 Section 8 of the US Constitution; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States.

                              Its a constitutional mandate to pay for the defense of the nation. Your college education and colonoscopy are not part of that. Thats why the DoD has a budget of 600ish billion, and your on your own to improve your own life and take care of your self.

                              Opposed to the 3.5 Trillion that is spent on Health care in the USA every year, we could take every penny from the DoD and still only cover about 20% of whats spent on Heath Care in a year.

                              Originally posted by decay View Post
                              we can start with eliminating subsidies for already massively profitable petroleum companies, for one.
                              Just because you keep saying it does not make it any less incorrect, than it was the last time you tried to fuck this particular chicken.
                              Originally posted by Fusion
                              If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
                              The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


                              The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

                              Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
                              William Pitt-

                              Comment


                                Yes economics of scale play here, And due to the social programs and despite the high taxation as of 2017 public debt to GDP was about 61%. is that what we really want here in the us
                                As of December 31, 2018, debt held by the public was $16.1 trillion and intragovernmental holdings were $5.87 trillion, for a total or "National Debt" of $21.97 trillion. Debt held by the public was approximately 76.4% of GDP in Q3 2018. In 2017, the US debt-to-GDP ratio was ranked 43rd highest out of 207 countries.
                                Government Debt to GDP in Finland is expected to be 57.60 percent by the end of this quarter, according to Trading Economics global macro models and analysts expectations. In the long-term, the Finland Government Debt to GDP is projected to trend around 51.00 percent in 2020, according to our econometric models
                                The United States had a debt-to-GDP ratio of 104.17% in the year 2015 and 105.4% in 2017, according to the U.S. Bureau of Public Debt.
                                What was your point again? That their better? I guess personal responsibility doesn't extend to having an informed opinion.

                                Article 1 Section 8 of the US Constitution; To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States.

                                Its a constitutional mandate to pay for the defense of the nation. Your college education and colonoscopy are not part of that. Thats why the DoD has a budget of 600ish billion, and your on your own to improve your own life and take care of your self.
                                Defense against who exactly? Last I checked the last time the US was invaded was the war of 1812. The US bitches about Iran, but forgets it was their own coup of a democratricly elected president that led the the current situation. Much like you ignore the multiple coup attempts, military backed regime changes, funding of terrorist gorilla groups, and just general screwing around south of your border for the last 60+ years. The us has been at war for 92% of its history, and since ww2 all its been doing is fucking up black, brown, and yellow countries. Then whining about the blow back. Perfect example is the war on drugs, cause apparently you guys didn't learn anything from the first try with prohibition.

                                As was mentioned, its about priorities. Where a nation spends its money shows exactly where it's priorities lay. And the us's is war, not it's people.

                                Sleeve, your smart enough to know that it's not a matter of being able to do what almost every other nation has figured out. It's purely a matter of not wanting to. At the end of the day all Americans love free shit, just those on the right don't want certain people to get that same free shit. Because to those on the right there's different levels of "american". Usually ranked first by your ethnic background, then your occupation. But throw in sexual orientation too. These are americans*. As long as they play white all's good. Step outside that box a little and suddenly they get kicked out of line. Where as to those on the left there is only the one American.

                                To be be blunt Sleeve, you make these distinctions. Within this very thread you decided that two Americans were guilty of a crime based on no other information than their race. And admitted to it. But still doubled down by using personal responsibility as an attack. Arguing that the mere act of speaking a different language is worthy of government detention and harassment. So I guess the first amendment doesn't apply the same to brown people, huh.
                                You also attack ocasio-cortez constantly with ad hominem. While also admitting that you haven't read any of her policy proposals. So is her being a Democrat, a woman, or a minority that keeps you from educating yourself before forming an opinion? And thus debating the actual policy?

                                Sorry to hijack there. Just wanted to post something with more substance. Carry on.

                                Comment

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