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    Also, this past page or two should be in the "Trump" thread, not here.
    1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

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      Back on track to actual candidates, and not the know-nothing narcissist in chief:

      Bernie and AOC introduce bill capping credit card interest rates at 15%

      Intercept Article in more detail
      Last edited by phillipj; 05-10-2019, 12:52 PM.
      1990 BMW 325iC Triple Black Hard Top, Self-Wrenched, Original Owner Family

      Comment


        Originally posted by phillipj View Post
        Back on track to actual candidates, and not the know-nothing narcissist in chief:

        Bernie and AOC introduce bill capping credit card interest rates at 15%

        Intercept Article in more detail
        more protect people from themselves BULLSHIT.... here is an idea, dont pay any interest and make the CC banks PAY YOU to use their products....

        Dont spend more money than you have, and pay off your fucking card(s) every month like a responsible person

        Stupid hurts and is a very good teacher
        Originally posted by Fusion
        If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
        The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


        The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

        Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
        William Pitt-

        Comment


          Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
          more protect people from themselves BULLSHIT.... here is an idea, dont pay any interest and make the CC banks PAY YOU to use their products....

          Dont spend more money than you have, and pay off your fucking card(s) every month like a responsible person

          Stupid hurts and is a very good teacher
          While I agree with personal responsibility and education when it comes to financial products (and most things)... you don't believe 15% interest is enough profit for the banks?
          "A good memory for quotes combined with a poor memory for attribution can lead to a false sense of originality."
          -----------------------------------------
          91 318is Turbo Sold
          87 325 Daily driver Sold
          06 4.8is X5
          06 Mtec X3
          05 4.4i X5 Sold
          92 325ic Sold & Re-purchased
          90 325i Sold
          97 328is Sold
          01 323ci Sold
          92 325i Sold
          83 528e Totaled
          98 328i Sold
          93 325i Sold

          Comment


            With the high rates of CC defaults on 5 figure balances in recent memory why should banks be limited in the amount of interest they charge on a revolving account, where the consumer has 100% control over the amount of interest they pay on that account.

            We are not talking about a predatory payday loans or iffy mortgages issued to people that were less than qualified, or other fixed payment over time types of loans, where the interest rate is designed to entrap consumers in a never ending debt cycle. While I agree usury is wrong, and that a 30% apr is such, I feel that the type of product this rate is charged on plays a role in where such a rate is applied. On a revolving account such a rate can be appropriate as the consumer can choose to NOT use the account, or to use it sparingly, or only use it for emergency's. That high rate is a as much a motivator to pay the card off or not to abuse the privilege of having access to Revolving Credit. Not like when you take a 280 dollar pay day loan with 12 fixed payments that when it matures in costs the borrower 975. 2 completely different situations

            DONT SPEND MORE MONEY THAN YOU HAVE.... its a hard lesson to learn. We have not paid a dime in CC interest in well over a decade, and we run "a lot" though them every year.
            Last edited by mrsleeve; 05-10-2019, 09:26 PM.
            Originally posted by Fusion
            If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
            The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


            The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

            Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
            William Pitt-

            Comment


              Originally posted by mrsleeve View Post
              With the high rates of CC defaults on 5 figure balances in recent memory why should banks be limited in the amount of interest they charge on a revolving account, where the consumer has 100% control over the amount of interest they pay on that account.

              We are not talking about a predatory payday loans or iffy mortgages issued to people that were less than qualified, or other fixed payment over time types of loans, where the interest rate is designed to entrap consumers in a never ending debt cycle. While I agree usury is wrong, and that a 30% apr is such, I feel that the type of product this rate is charged on plays a role in where such a rate is applied. On a revolving account such a rate can be appropriate as the consumer can choose to NOT use the account, or to use it sparingly, or only use it for emergency's. That high rate is a as much a motivator to pay the card off or not to abuse the privilege of having access to Revolving Credit. Not like when you take a 280 dollar pay day loan with 12 fixed payments that when it matures in costs the borrower 975. 2 completely different situations

              DONT SPEND MORE MONEY THAN YOU HAVE.... its a hard lesson to learn. We have not paid a dime in CC interest in well over a decade, and we run "a lot" though them every year.
              So your answer is, you don't believe 15% is sufficient profit for the bank. That was what I was asking. If worried about the default on "5 figure balances," how about putting the onus on the bank? Perhaps they should not lend to an unfit borrower?

              If you value your credit score, you are forced to participate in the credit card game to an extent. Especially if you are just starting out building your credit. Choice to participate is not 100% in the hands of the end user. Overspending is for sure... but along with that undisciplined spending, sometimes emergencies happen. So, like many things that get discussed in this section of the forum, lumping all CC debt into one category (end user's lack of discipline) is single-minded.

              My position is that 15% is sufficient ROI. Congrats on being CC debt free. We aim to be in the next few years ourselves. But currently hold $50k in CC @ 0%. NOT by choice, I assure you. We shuffle the balances between cards at 0% (but pay the 3% transfer fee) as we keep our scores high enough to do so. I feel for those who can't. If we wanted to change our retirement plan, we could pay it off very quickly. But @ ~0%... I'm not turning away free money. Use the bank's trickeries against them.
              "A good memory for quotes combined with a poor memory for attribution can lead to a false sense of originality."
              -----------------------------------------
              91 318is Turbo Sold
              87 325 Daily driver Sold
              06 4.8is X5
              06 Mtec X3
              05 4.4i X5 Sold
              92 325ic Sold & Re-purchased
              90 325i Sold
              97 328is Sold
              01 323ci Sold
              92 325i Sold
              83 528e Totaled
              98 328i Sold
              93 325i Sold

              Comment


                Schnitz, you aren't providing any kind of retort to sleeve's claims of "don't spend more than you have."

                The banks are in business to make money. Don't extend credit to those who aren't worthy? Where is that line drawn? If I had a bank, I wouldn't loan you money you didn't have. Then where would all be?

                So if 15% is too much? What is the appropriate % to be made giving money to people they don't have? 13%? 4%?

                I bet you don't have a concrete answer with evidence to support your position, you just have the feeling that 15% is too much. Right?

                Sorry, I'm little pissed off this morning (not at y'all)
                Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
                Chief Sales Officer, Midwest Division—Blunt Tech Industries

                www.gutenparts.com
                One stop shopping for NEW, USED and EURO PARTS!

                Comment


                  Originally posted by z31maniac View Post
                  So if 15% is too much? What is the appropriate % to be made giving money to people they don't have? 13%? 4%?

                  I bet you don't have a concrete answer with evidence to support your position, you just have the feeling that 15% is too much. Right?

                  Sorry, I'm little pissed off this morning (not at y'all)
                  It's all good, we all have good days and bad days. I was saying 15% is fine. Many CC, especially retail cards, can reach 25%. 4% on revolving credit would probably not be worth assuming the risk and associated overhead.

                  You're right, I have not looked up anything to back up my opinion that 15% is a good cap for CC interest. Just my experience that 15% ROI is pretty good when it comes to an investment. It would be hard to consistently beat that in the market year over year.

                  Edit: "Schnitz, you aren't providing any kind of retort to sleeve's claims of "don't spend more than you have."

                  That's because I don't disagree with that sentiment. Just pointing out it's not always possible to adhere to that policy.
                  Last edited by Schnitzer318is; 05-11-2019, 07:31 AM.
                  "A good memory for quotes combined with a poor memory for attribution can lead to a false sense of originality."
                  -----------------------------------------
                  91 318is Turbo Sold
                  87 325 Daily driver Sold
                  06 4.8is X5
                  06 Mtec X3
                  05 4.4i X5 Sold
                  92 325ic Sold & Re-purchased
                  90 325i Sold
                  97 328is Sold
                  01 323ci Sold
                  92 325i Sold
                  83 528e Totaled
                  98 328i Sold
                  93 325i Sold

                  Comment


                    I pay everything with credit cards except my mortgage each month, and I've been doing so since I was 20, so that's nearly 15 years. With a few exceptions where I needed more money than I had for a particular month (mainly the first few years when my income was low because I was still in school), I haven't paid interest on any credit card. While doing so I've collected cash back, airline miles, essentially been paid to use those credit cards instead of the other way around.

                    I don't see why this is even a discussion, why does it matter what the percentage is, 5%, 15%, 25%, if you use the card correctly to avoid interest, the number is irrelevant. How does one get into $50k in debt on credit cards anyway? I have to assume medical expenses, I just can't see any other reason to spend that much on a credit card(s). In which case I'd say that's more a function of the healthcare system than the banking system.

                    I'd love to see Bernie and AOC introduce a bill that would fund classes in schools across the country to teach personal finance to children so that everyone can be more responsible instead of going after private industries because (a majority of) people that end up in massive debt are idiots and want to live beyond their means.

                    Comment


                      It’s not the responsibility of the government
                      “There is nothing government can give you that it hasn’t taken from you in the first place”
                      Sir Winston Churchill

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by mbonder View Post
                        I pay everything with credit cards except my mortgage each month, and I've been doing so since I was 20, so that's nearly 15 years. With a few exceptions where I needed more money than I had for a particular month (mainly the first few years when my income was low because I was still in school), I haven't paid interest on any credit card. While doing so I've collected cash back, airline miles, essentially been paid to use those credit cards instead of the other way around.

                        I don't see why this is even a discussion, why does it matter what the percentage is, 5%, 15%, 25%, if you use the card correctly to avoid interest, the number is irrelevant. How does one get into $50k in debt on credit cards anyway? I have to assume medical expenses, I just can't see any other reason to spend that much on a credit card(s). In which case I'd say that's more a function of the healthcare system than the banking system.

                        I'd love to see Bernie and AOC introduce a bill that would fund classes in schools across the country to teach personal finance to children so that everyone can be more responsible instead of going after private industries because (a majority of) people that end up in massive debt are idiots and want to live beyond their means.
                        Ding ding ding!

                        I have a chunk of outstanding debt due to life circumstances (divorce, layoffs, moving, moving to another city, etc) over the last few years. But I'm working on it, and it will be gone in the next 12-18 months.

                        But I also have enough good credit that the debt I've needed to incur, has all been transferred to 0% cards, once the term is up, I just transfer it back to a different card with 0%. Of course, I have to pay a fee for this, but it's still much cheaper than the interest I would pay.

                        So we can do the whole "Dave Ramsey debt is worse than the devil." But debt isn't necessarily the devil if you know how to manage/leverage it to your benefit.
                        Need parts now? Need them cheap? steve@blunttech.com
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                        Comment


                          Montana Governor Steve Bullock enters the race

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by mbonder View Post
                            How does one get into $50k in debt on credit cards anyway? I have to assume medical expenses, I just can't see any other reason to spend that much on a credit card(s). In which case I'd say that's more a function of the healthcare system than the banking system.

                            I'd love to see Bernie and AOC introduce a bill that would fund classes in schools across the country to teach personal finance to children so that everyone can be more responsible instead of going after private industries because (a majority of) people that end up in massive debt are idiots and want to live beyond their means.
                            Home Economics classes would be excellent if brought back into the middle school and high school curriculums. Whole-heartedly agree. I had home-ec in middle school and learned how to balance a check book, about interest, etc. Would certainly help young people to have a grasp of the fundamentals of individual finance.

                            $50k is not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things, but I see your point. Your assumption is correct, partially medical. Partially a misrepresented house (needed lots of repairs). Partially an unethical builder destroying our house (and every other house on our street) 2-3 times a year over a 5 year period, partially our local gov't allowing it to happen. So, there ARE ways it can happen other than being irresponsible. As you have said, if you keep your credit score up, and have some financial knowledge, there is little reason to pay interest on credit card debt. We rarely have to. We could pay off the CC in less than a year if we felt like changing our retirement plans, or in a week if we felt like refinancing the house.

                            ^My position, which differs from the two of you obviously, is that 15% is a perfectly good ROI and that I'd be fine with the large financial institutions being limited to that. Combine the 15% with fees and I'm sure they would still do quite well on the products.
                            "A good memory for quotes combined with a poor memory for attribution can lead to a false sense of originality."
                            -----------------------------------------
                            91 318is Turbo Sold
                            87 325 Daily driver Sold
                            06 4.8is X5
                            06 Mtec X3
                            05 4.4i X5 Sold
                            92 325ic Sold & Re-purchased
                            90 325i Sold
                            97 328is Sold
                            01 323ci Sold
                            92 325i Sold
                            83 528e Totaled
                            98 328i Sold
                            93 325i Sold

                            Comment


                              I simply don't care about the number, my point was that Congress seems to be more interested (and in particular these guys running for President on the left) to treat the symptom rather than treating the cause of it, which just isn't smart, doesn't matter which way you slice it.

                              Where is the proof that a measure such as capping interest rates at 15% will change anything? Will this actually help people? Or will the poor habits continue, if not be strengthened by the fact that the penalty isn't as bad as it was before?

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by mbonder View Post
                                I simply don't care about the number, my point was that Congress seems to be more interested (and in particular these guys running for President on the left) to treat the symptom rather than treating the cause of it, which just isn't smart, doesn't matter which way you slice it.

                                Where is the proof that a measure such as capping interest rates at 15% will change anything? Will this actually help people? Or will the poor habits continue, if not be strengthened by the fact that the penalty isn't as bad as it was before?
                                I get you and I agree with the points you are making. I'm not overly concerned with CC rates as an issue either. My first response regarding it was one of, "meh, I'm fine with it... won't determine my vote one way or the other, but why is 15% not enough ROI for the bank?" But my response garnered a response as if it was an attack against the free market (which we don't have anyway) or dismissing personal accountability. CC rates are an issue that's not really on my radar, but corporate greed and political influence most certainly is. I know many enjoy the Gordon Gecko school of finance mentality when it comes to business... I'm not one of them.

                                I have not seen, nor sought, any proof that 15% will change anything socially as that is not my motivation for being okay with the cap. What it will change is the amount of money the banks make, and by relation, the board members. That is something I'd like to see.
                                "A good memory for quotes combined with a poor memory for attribution can lead to a false sense of originality."
                                -----------------------------------------
                                91 318is Turbo Sold
                                87 325 Daily driver Sold
                                06 4.8is X5
                                06 Mtec X3
                                05 4.4i X5 Sold
                                92 325ic Sold & Re-purchased
                                90 325i Sold
                                97 328is Sold
                                01 323ci Sold
                                92 325i Sold
                                83 528e Totaled
                                98 328i Sold
                                93 325i Sold

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