Democratic Primary Season 2020

[decay]

Please actually read posts prior to responding in the future to avoid these errors.

hey man, sometimes people say shit that's dumb enough that the only appropriate response is "let me stop you right there"

if your messaging causes people to respond that way, maybe reshape it.

[naplesE30]

Coldweather don’t be so careless next time, and take into account that your messages may “cause” people to respond ignorantly. Next time be more careful.

[decay]

Coldweather don’t be so careless next time, and take into account that your messages may “cause” people to respond ignorantly. Next time be more careful.

cute skirt you've got there, cheerleader

[gwb72tii]

I think that whoever gets the nomination will back off many of the far left things that are being said (Illegal immigrants will have the same healthcare as everyone else, for instance) as they will have to attract moderates and independents if they wish to win.

If this doesn't happen, then it's definitely going to be another four years of Trump.

It’s going to be impossible for all those candidates who raised their hands on stage affirming illegal aliens should get free healthcare.

Does anyone think this is a winning political policy?

[phillipj]

ItÂ’s going to be impossible for all those candidates who raised their hands on stage affirming illegal aliens should get free healthcare.

Does anyone think this is a winning political policy?

It's a conceptual 'raise your hand' hand question with no details or space for nuance. I'm not surprised that the original language on that is being spun. We all know Nothing is 'free'.

This is insightful and succinct: What Would Giving Healthcare to Undocumented Immigrants Mean?

In an ideal world we have a reliable and accessible system in place, something, to better serve all the people in our country --Citizens or Immigrants. Showing up at our hospital's emergency rooms with no insurance doesn't make it any better for the rest of us.

[phillipj]

Healthcare is maybe the foremost issue for whoever runs for President, Senate, Town Dog Catcher, whatever. Any candidate talking honestly about all this and making it very understandable to people will have the best shot at winning.

[phillipj]

Party has too many far left candidates. The few centered ones with realistic policy aren't front runners and will get weeded out. Thus handing the election to Trump. We're living Idiocracy.

Serious question: What does 'Left' mean? What does 'Centered' really Mean?

President Obama governed more or less as a moderate Republican and it's arguable he was to the Right of Reagan, someone like a Hillary Clinton was further to the Right of him.

I think our senses of what is Left, Right, and 'Centered' has been so spun and propagandized by our media atmosphere that no one knows what's up. Let's not forget that there's a Congress and a Supreme Court in place (to supposedly) to check any President.

'Far Left' means we put an end to our to our forever wars and focus that bottomless pit of money on our own people and country, so sign me up.

[mrsleeve]

hey man, sometimes people say shit that's dumb enough that the only appropriate response is "let me stop you right there"

if your messaging causes people to respond that way, maybe reshape it.

So like about 73% of the shit you type in this sub forum?????

[decay]

So like about 73% of the shit you type in this sub forum?????

hey simmer down sleeve, nobody ever accused you of reading the whole post

happy 4th assholes

[mrsleeve]

Huh that's funny I frequently multi quote my responses sometimes broken down by the sentence of the post I am responding to

Happy 4th to you as wel

[coldweatherblue]

if your messaging causes people to respond that way, maybe reshape it.

Are you saying r3v can't read good?

Cause I believe r3v can do that good and other things too.

happy 4th y'all

[Todd Black 88]

[Schnitzer318is]

Here is an example of how the left might be misunderstanding what it is going to take to win the election.

https://getpocket.com/explore/item/a...=pocket-newtab

Serious question: What does 'Left' mean? What does 'Centered' really Mean?

President Obama governed more or less as a moderate Republican and it's arguable he was to the Right of Reagan, someone like a Hillary Clinton was further to the Right of him.

I think our senses of what is Left, Right, and 'Centered' has been so spun and propagandized by our media atmosphere that no one knows what's up. Let's not forget that there's a Congress and a Supreme Court in place (to supposedly) to check any President.

'Far Left' means we put an end to our to our forever wars and focus that bottomless pit of money on our own people and country, so sign me up.

When I think left and right, I do it in the contemporary. Obama may have been right of Reagan, but was left of say Mitch McConnell or Lindsey Graham (and much of contemporary Republicans). I voted for Obama the first time... "fool me once..."

When I think centered... I think someone who is going to actually work on policy. Not pie in the sky promises. I don't like the idea of FREE school, or FREE health care. I want everyone to pay a reasonable amount for those things. Even if my taxes go up. Because I GUARANTEE you our taxes could not possibly go up any amount that rivals what we pay in health care premiums, deductibles, etc. We're talking well north of $10k a year some years. And even years where everyone is healthy, still $7k+. Some will argue those figures are not exorbitant. And if that's the case in your situation, congrats. But the majority of America doesn't live that experience.

Colleges have gotten out of control with what they are allowed to charge. Regulate that. Graduating with a $100,000+ debt, with no guarantee of work/salary is just outrageous. If the universities were to also have job placement guarantees (even $40k/50k entry level for a bachelor's would be great) after graduation I'd forgive the high tuition.

Health care should be paid for by everyone, in our taxes. It's been proven time and time again we can not trust private enterprise to act in a manner that makes them money and still provides, at times, even adequate health care. This is one policy I don't mind the "far left's" ideas... but that's not going to fly because people are blind or brainwashed. "I like my plan... doctor... blah." You are over paying for your care. PERIOD. So, in order for policy to actually have a chance of changing you could not abolish private insurance all-together, but have to add a public option to that. Unfortunately, that doesn't work well either because then hospitals or doctors will resist accepting it. And the "all hospitals would close paying Medicare rates" argument is stupid. No they wouldn't. GTFO. They'd certainly make less money... but would definitely still be more than solvent. I know doctors and hospital admins, which doesn't make me an expert by any means... but has given me some insight into the health care system.

Obama did accomplish a public option, but it was just a "wet your feet" option IMO. But that's what it took to pass it. So there you go, at least something was accomplished. It must not be absolutely horrible because the Republicans can't get rid of it, as much of their constituency is actually on it and have let them know as much.

But, the number one thing I would like from a presidential candidate is to work to get rid of Citizen's United. Remove as much money from politics (especially campaigning) as possible. Especially corporate funding and lobbying.

Anyway, been drinking and working on our newly acquired E61... so TLDR: the Democrats are not going to be able to sell single payer/Medicare for all, tuition forgiveness, etc. to the mainstream voter. Stick to breaking up monopolies, but stop targeting only Google, Amazon, Facebook. Target the real problems, telecoms, pharma, etc. Campaign reform and other things that most middle class and lower middle class Democratic voters are concerned with.

[phillipj]

... But, the number one thing I would like from a presidential candidate is to work to get rid of Citizen's United. Remove as much money from politics (especially campaigning) as possible. Especially corporate funding and lobbying.

Right with you there x1000, it corrupts everything

[mrsleeve]

Colleges have gotten out of control with what they are allowed to charge. Regulate that. Graduating with a $100,000+ debt, with no guarantee of work/salary is just outrageous. If the universities were to also have job placement guarantees (even $40k/50k entry level for a bachelor's would be great) after graduation I'd forgive the high tuition.

I think you and I have had this conversation a while back and we have a some what differing view point on causation but fundamental agree that post high school education costs are beyond reasonable and especially given the quality of a "classic liberal arts" degree has gone down the shitter in the last 30-40 years.

Health care should be paid for by everyone, in our taxes.

UMMMMMM NO it should not, Now to some degree I could support the infrastructure (Facilities and maybe subsidization of highly costly equipment) being paid for by local/state/property taxes as that would benefit those in the community that is willing to vote to raise their taxes to support such things. Not unlike how school districts pass Mills to build new buildings or fund equipment and other school related "facilities"

It's been proven time and time again we can not trust private enterprise to act in a manner that makes them money and still provides, at times, even adequate health care.

For profit medicine is defiantly a double edged sword, and not with out its pit falls, I totally agree with you especially given the experiences/treatment we have dealt with, for the wife's health predicament the last 15 months (that have caused us to all but leave the western medical practitioners). That said show me another system in the world that has generated as much advancement in the field than the profit motive we have been using the last 75 years or so.

This is one policy I don't mind the "far left's" ideas... but that's not going to fly because people are blind or brainwashed. "I like my plan... doctor... blah." You are over paying for your care. PERIOD. So, in order for policy to actually have a chance of changing you could not abolish private insurance all-together, but have to add a public option to that.

We will continue to agree to disagree on this. Some points to consider, in places where there is "public funded" healthcare, the better care is normally gotten at PRIVATE hospitals and clinics if you have the funds to afford it. Next point to consider, is how most people receive their HCI, its normally part of their benefits package at work, if there is all the sudden a public option what are all these companies going to do??? THEY ARE GOING TO DUMP all of us into that system, are we going to pay though our taxes (going up on our income) for a "corporate handout" of not having to pay all those HCI premiums on millions of us???? Also are we all going to get that money added to our checks or 401k's.... Thats going to be up to our employers..... This is not unlike how people have bitched about walmart not paying people enough or allowing "full time" employees to get enough hours to get the employee provided healthcare, and used the low income assistance from the state and federal level to "subsidize their bottom line" to quote Mike Moore (IIRC)

Unfortunately, that doesn't work well either because then hospitals or doctors will resist accepting it. And the "all hospitals would close paying Medicare rates" argument is stupid. No they wouldn't. GTFO. They'd certainly make less money... but would definitely still be more than solvent.

This is a BLATANTLY FALSE assumption.... Rural hospitals have been closing doors at an alarming rate since 2010 or so. Why you might ask, you said it your self, high proportion OF MEDICARE patients and the year over year REDUCTION in reimbursement rates, coupled with the lower volume. Yes LARGE hospitals and clinics that work on the Walmart model of VOLUME of people shunted though the system every day will be fine. Not everyone lives in or even near a city with such options. Not to mention if these are the only places that would survive how much longer would the wait for care get with the influx from the closures of other options more local to them?

Its happening NOW as we speak. several rural hospitals have shut down in the last couple months

https://www.gao.gov/products/GAO-18-634

Bold for effect added by me

What types of rural hospitals closed?

Rural hospital closures disproportionately occurred in the South, among for-profit hospitals, and among Medicare Dependent Hospitals—small rural hospitals with Medicare beneficiaries accounting for a certain percentage of their business.

Why have rural hospitals closed?

Financial distress.Multiple factors have exacerbated this, including a decrease in patients seeking inpatient care and across-the-board Medicare payment reductions.

This is from last year and the total closures in the as of right now is 98 since 2010

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/23/heres-a-map-of-where-rural-hospital-closures-are-happening-in-the-us.html

Obama did accomplish a public option, but it was just a "wet your feet" option IMO. But that's what it took to pass it. So there you go, at least something was accomplished. It must not be absolutely horrible because the Republicans can't get rid of it, as much of their constituency is actually on it and have let them know as much.

That public option caused the cost of the private options to go way up, mine has more than doubled since 0-care was implemented for the same level of benefits, in fact our prescription coverage has all but evaporated in recent years to keep our premiums in check...

If you ask me it was a compromise that was doomed to fail by intent and lay the ground work for the utopian dream of the next step being single payer, as the "only practical fix"

But, the number one thing I would like from a presidential candidate is to work to get rid of Citizen's United. Remove as much money from politics (especially campaigning) as possible. Especially corporate funding and lobbying.

But your fine with all the other Leftist, Organizations and groups out there, You just want the Conservative ones to be targeted for going away???

I agree that lobbing/campaign funding needs to be brought under control, it has its place, and I think it is a fundamental part of how our system should work. Where people and organizations can support the candidate of their choice, that support their values are allowed to do so. BUT I wholly agree with you that it needs a massive OVERHAUL in some way to limit/eliminate the favor buying..... Maybe limit all donations from private individuals to no more than 500 bucks, and 1000 for business/organization or something like that.