Democratic Primary Season 2020

[bmwman91]

I'd say that Warren never should have played the stupid identity / "ancestry" game to begin with. That includes whatever claims she has made in the past, but much more importantly she should have simply ignored Trump's comments about it. I can't get behind anyone who is dumb enough to engage with Trump on his peripheral Twitter nonsense. So, she is off of my "adults in the room" list.

[phillipj]

I'd say that Warren never should have played the stupid identity / "ancestry" game to begin with. That includes whatever claims she has made in the past, but much more importantly she should have simply ignored Trump's comments about it. I can't get behind anyone who is dumb enough to engage with Trump on his peripheral Twitter nonsense. So, she is off of my "adults in the room" list.

It's sad (for her Presidential aspirations) that that issue blew up like that. If you do look at her history, it seems she has been overplaying it for her whole adult life. Recently her texas law card was published from the 70's claiming her Heritage as Native American... She probably has always wanted to set herself apart, and also genuinely feels for the sad story of this country's Native people...

However, when it came to Standing Rock, not that long ago, she was sure absent. I think a lot of us would like to trust Elizabeth Warren, but we don't. However, do we let this whole (relatively minor) Ancestry thing eclipse the rest of her record, her history, her life-story? We probably shouldn't...

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If Warren would have had the guts to challenge Clinton in 2016, she would have won. She was on the brink, being pushed by large backers, MoveOn, others. Sanders asked her to run... Her not running was one of the main reasons Bernie decided to to throw his hat in, just to attempt to bring Hillary to some more progressive, anti-neoliberal stances...

I really want to vote for someone who would stand up to someone like a Clinton, not someone who folds. Obama took on Clinton (to his credit). His greatest failure was letting her and all of her cronies back into the picture. :ugh:

[z31maniac]

It's sad (for her Presidential aspirations) that that issue blew up like that. If you do look at her history, it seems she has been overplaying it for her whole adult life. Recently her texas law card was published from the 70's claiming her Heritage as Native American... She probably has always wanted to set herself apart, and also genuinely feels for the sad story of this country's Native people...

However, when it came to Standing Rock, not that long ago, she was sure absent. I think a lot of us would like to trust Elizabeth Warren! but we don't. However, do we let this whole (relatively minor) Ancestry thing eclipse the rest her record, her history, her life-story? We probably shouldn't...

---

If Warren would have had the guts to challenge Clinton in 2016, she would have won. She was on the brink, being pushed by many large backers, MoveOn, others. Sanders asked her to run. Her not running was one of the main reasons Bernie decided to to throw his hat in, just to attempt to bring Hillary to some more progressive, anti-neoliberal stances...

I want to vote for someone who would stand up to someone like a Clinton -- not someone who folds. Obama took on Clinton (to his credit). His greatest failure was letting her and all of her cronies back in to the picture. :ugh:

She was born in Oklahoma. Nearly every person born here in the last 125 years has some degree of Native American in their blood.

Hell, I'd be on the role for the Cherokee's if my great-grandmother had signed up..............but you also don't see me going around claiming to be Native American.

[phillipj]

She was born in Oklahoma. Nearly every person born here in the last 125 years has some degree of Native American in their blood.

Hell, I'd be on the role for the Cherokee's if my great-grandmother had signed up..............but you also don't see me going around claiming to be Native American.

Right on. It's def. strange that she did not claim it when she originally applied to college and later law school, but then started using it after. In the grand scheme of things it's such a small issue... but it's no surprise something like that gets the majority of the press! No one wants to dedicate important time to real issues.

[z31maniac]

Right on. It's def. strange that she did not claim it when she originally applied to college and later law school, but then started using it after. In the grand scheme of things it's such a small issue... but it's no surprise something like that gets the majority of the press! No one wants to dedicate important time to real issues.

Of course not, people don't even understand something very simple like how the tax brackets work.

[bmwman91]

Of course not, people don't even understand something very simple like how the tax brackets work.

Got to ask for that pay cut to keep yourself in the lower bracket, right?

[gwb72tii]

In what may be bad news for most/all of the current Democrats running for POTUS, public support for capitalism is increasing and support for socialism is decreasing.

Now, the survey is from Fox news, and is subject to how questions are framed etc., but if partially true, Sanders, AOC, Warren and Harris are guaranteeing Trumps re-election.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/capitalism-crushes-socialism-fox-news-poll

Count me as part of the group that wants government to just leave me alone.

Now, if we could actually just try capitalism without the "crony".............

[bmwman91]

Now, if we could actually just try capitalism without the "crony".............

I dunno, that might be like wanting "pure socialism" without the mass graves. As I was discussing with a buddy, I wonder what the "next" socioeconomic structure will be. Capitalism and western democracy are objectively (IMHO) less-bad than the other systems humanity has tried in the last few thousand years, but they are nowhere near perfect and still end up tossing countless people into various meat grinders. Given the advances in education and technology that we have had, what will the next great innovation in civilization be? Western civ is a couple thousand years old, and I'd say that capitalism is sort of the latest and maybe last evolution of it. I'd hate to think that this is "as good as it gets" because it seems to be failing a lot of people as the cronyism gets worse. The outcome of the last time this happened was the great depression, and it took less than a century to repeat all of those mistakes. Make no mistake, we live in Gilded Age 2.0.

Anyway, I am not sure that I agree that running a "socialist" candidate would be a sure loss for the Dems. I'd argue that Sanders would be in the white house right now had Hillary not bought her way onto the ticket last time. Hell, the paper trail is out there for anyone to see, which IMO is why the whole Russiagate thing exists. "Ignore the contents of the emails, just get mad that they were leaked! Oogey boogey Vladdy P!" People are sick of the establishment, and I think that Trump won because of that. He is practically the living embodiment of the establishment, but he ran on an "outsider" ticket to great effect.

AOC is too young to run, so that is technically impossible in 2020. Also, while I will give her the benefit of the doubt and say that her heart is in the right place, she is in way over her head in her current position simply based on her age. Even though I disagree with her positions, I do like seeing her get in there and hassle Pelosi, because Pelosi is second only to Hillary in terms of crooked establishmentarians that are destroying the Democrat party.

Warren...I'd have supported her maybe 8 years ago, back when she was talking tough about busting Wall Street's balls for their unfathomably criminal behavior during the housing bubble. I wanted to see Dimon, Blankfein and others of their ilk do prison time. Instead they all got 8+ figure bonuses made out of TARP / taxpayer funds, and then QE got foisted upon everyone which was just mumbo-jumbo for inflation. Warren today seems to have lost her claws, and is wasting time talking about ancestry gossip that has absolutely no pertinence to anything important in the real world. Also, she is rapidly approaching "too old" status.

Sanders is too damn old, and I can already see the machinations of the DNC getting to him. He's starting to play into their dumb talking points here and there. Yes yes he is an independent, but whatever magic he had last time is gone. Had he been on the ticket last time, I may have actually voted for him, but I probably wouldn't in 2020.

Harris is in no way a socialist. She's Hillary 2.0. The only person I can think of who would be even more Hillary 2.0 is Pelosi, but she knows that running for president would be the end of her existing gravy train, and she's way too smart to kill that golden goose. Harris is the living embodiment of the corrupt establishment who has no intention of enacting prison/sentencing reform, ending our various interventionist escapades worldwide or reigning in Wall Street.

Gabbard at least seems to talk about scaling back the US occupation of various other countries, so I applaud that. Even a 20% scale-back would mean hundreds of billions of dollars are freed up to be used domestically. Beyond that, I am not really sure what her positions are on the FIRE sector, prison reform or "free money" programs. So I am not entirely sold on her, but she is better than any of the others that seem to want to get onto the Dem ticket right now.

[gwb72tii]

Well there is one thing for certain, we are going to get a contest between a socialist and Trump.

Harris by the way signed onto the "Green Deal" which makes her a socialist. The worst kind maybe, one of convenience.

[phillipj]

... Anyway, I am not sure that I agree that running a "socialist" candidate would be a sure loss for the Dems. I'd argue that Sanders would be in the white house right now had Hillary not bought her way onto the ticket last time. Hell, the paper trail is out there for anyone to see, which IMO is why the whole Russiagate thing exists. "Ignore the contents of the emails, just get mad that they were leaked! ... People are sick of the establishment, and I think that Trump won because of that. He is practically the living embodiment of the establishment, but he ran on an "outsider" ticket to great effect.

I strongly agree: Bernie would've won.
However saying so is nonsense, because, as we saw, no one was going to be allowed to become the Democratic Nominee besides Clinton. The only possible way it could have happened was if the original Comey/FBI decision would have came down differently. Perhaps Bernie would've become the nominee by default, then beats Trump handily in the Election.
In addition, the powers that really run this country would ensure a Sanders presidency would be a disaster. It would be undermined severely.

AOC is too young to run, so that is technically impossible in 2020. Also, while I will give her the benefit of the doubt and say that her heart is in the right place, she is in way over her head in her current position simply based on her age. Even though I disagree with her positions, I do like seeing her get in there and hassle Pelosi, because Pelosi is second only to Hillary in terms of crooked establishmentarians that are destroying the Democrat party.

No one should be "too young" to run, it's a terrible rule.

And Pelosi and Schumer are just terrible. I shudder to think of the deals they will cut with Trump and the GOP. See: Venezuela. See: Israel.

Warren...

Ugh.

Sanders is too damn old...

It is really besides the point. The Democratic Establishment will never put up a lifelong Independent like Bernie, no way, no how. As for his age? He is barely older than Trump-- in better health and conscience-- but who cares? He does not have a silly fake tan or hair.

Now an interesting idea is how about Bernie teams up with Tulsi Gabbard as basically the "outsider" Democratic ticket. The Anti-Neoliberal/Anti-Neoconservative/Anti-Establishment ticket. They could be a really strong and interesting team.

[mrsleeve]

Really you think a 28 year barista that has issues with simple math, basic economics, and very poor etiquette especially when things should not go her way, should be running for the white house???

RUN HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its a landslide Trump for 4 more years, as most D's wont show up to vote and the Rs will straight ticket him in again

[bmwman91]

I strongly agree: Bernie would've won.
However saying so is nonsense, because, as we saw, no one was going to be allowed to become the Democratic Nominee besides Clinton. The only possible way it could have happened was if the original Comey/FBI decision would have came down differently. Perhaps Bernie would've become the nominee by default, then beats Trump handily in the Election.
In addition, the powers that really run this country would ensure a Sanders presidency would be a disaster. It would be undermined severely.



No one should be "too young" to run, it's a terrible rule.

And Pelosi and Schumer are just terrible. I shudder to think of the deals they will cut with Trump and the GOP. See: Venezuela. See: Israel.



Ugh.



It is really besides the point. The Democratic Establishment will never put up a lifelong Independent like Bernie, no way, no how. As for his age? He is barely older than Trump-- in better health and conscience-- but who cares? He does not have a silly fake tan or hair.

Now an interesting idea is how about Bernie teams up with Tulsi Gabbard as basically the "outsider" Democratic ticket. The Anti-Neoliberal/Anti-Neoconservative/Anti-Establishment ticket. They could be a really strong and interesting team.

Fair enough, I guess that if a socialist cannot get onto the Dem ticket, it's a moot point.

Gabbard/Sanders on an independent run...holy shit, that would be amazing. They may not win, but I feel like it would hit our two shitty parties right in the balls.

[kickinindian]

Andrew Yang and the freedom dividend GOOOOOO!

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[decay]

Really you think a 28 year barista that has issues with simple math, basic economics, and very poor etiquette especially when things should not go her way, should be running for the white house???

RUN HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its a landslide Trump for 4 more years, as most D's wont show up to vote and the Rs will straight ticket him in again

bartender, not barista, and if you think that job is easy or for the unskilled, try it sometime (and no, your montana watering hole that only has bud light doesn't count)

[phillipj]

Really you think a 28 year barista that has issues with simple math, basic economics, and very poor etiquette especially when things should not go her way, should be running for the white house???

RUN HER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! its a landslide Trump for 4 more years, as most D's wont show up to vote and the Rs will straight ticket him in again

I do not believe that BMWman was saying AOC would run for President in 2020! -- he was just addressing popular names on the Democratic side for the sake of this thread.

But I do think a lot of us, no matter what your political stripes might be, would like to see younger, energetic new faces instead of the same old people.