E30 vs E46

[uofom3]

e46 - e30 earns no points because of the autotragic

[joshh]

Full size FWD luxury vehicle is not the same as a double wishbone mid-nineties civic or integra, it's like comparing a new 745iL to an E30.

In your case, I would take the E46, only because it is manual. If the E30 was manual, I'd take that for sure, even if it was 100% stock otherwise. A stock E30 is an excellent teacher, promotes good driving habits.

Agreed. I would hate to drive that CL on track. Might be fun but work at the same time.

[joshh]

All of those cars are VERY light. Their good handling is primarily a function of weight. The Acura we're talking about here is a big fat pig. my Dad says it weighs around 3800 pounds, which is just absurdly heavy. I think he took it to a public scale to get that number.

Also, SCCA and many other sanctioning bodies "equalize" the cars by allowing more or different mods on some models. The FWD cars in many cases are more heavily modded than the RWD cars.

Ok, you obviously do not autocross. The rules do not change for the cars within a given class.
If FWD sucked that bad they wouldn't be using them in the touring car races.

[Axxe]

Full size FWD luxury vehicle is not the same as a double wishbone mid-nineties civic or integra, it's like comparing a new 745iL to an E30.

In your case, I would take the E46, only because it is manual. If the E30 was manual, I'd take that for sure, even if it was 100% stock otherwise. A stock E30 is an excellent teacher, promotes good driving habits.

[Eliminator]

Back on topic: E46 vs E30....

[joshh]

Because i'm not ignorant and carry an open mind? I've raced a few FWD cars, while some suck, Honda and Acuras perform very well in turns IMO.

I had absolutely no plowing issues with my Integra, i actually tried pushing it to the limits to make it plow and insted the ass kicked out. I had a Civic Hatchback (base model with no sway bars, i had adjustable springs and shocks) i raced an MR2 with, the MR2 driver was pretty well known as a decent driver, i'd ride him through the turns and fall behind in the straights. I also raced a novice with a 240sx and he couldn't keep up for shit. The hatch however did have some tendacy to plow, but i have no doubt it would hang with an e30 (318.), possibly out perform it slightly in turns of equal suspension mods and tires. The problem i had that i don't have with the e30 though is brake fade, i suffered from it with that hatchback and i'm guessing it was from all the weight in the front and it having to use the shit out of those brakes that aren't intended for that kind of driving.

That hatch was my favorite handling car though, very, very responsive, and very predictable, no other car i've driven have i felt quite that in control of.

I hate to do this but I agree.

FWD is all about the set up. If it matches the driver and the driver is a good one a FWD will be right there with the RWD all things being equal.
You can get any car to plow.
The Integra Type-R is argueable the best FWD car ever made in terms of it's overall performance. And it's great handling proves it.

[Eliminator]

Correct, for the most part, but there are exceptions. Looks at mini coopers, celicas, rsx-s, integras, civics, they are all FWD but handle great and you can verify this through scca results against RWD cars...

All of those cars are VERY light. Their good handling is primarily a function of weight. The Acura we're talking about here is a big fat pig. my Dad says it weighs around 3800 pounds, which is just absurdly heavy. I think he took it to a public scale to get that number.

Also, SCCA and many other sanctioning bodies "equalize" the cars by allowing more or different mods on some models. The FWD cars in many cases are more heavily modded than the RWD cars.

[Dave]

Mk1 GTIs stripped can get well under 2000 lbs. I know of one WITH cage and a 1.8turbo engine that weighs in at about 1700 total.

The engine is not too wild, but 220hp in a 1700lb car.

It ain't brain surgery. That little box will scoot.

[Erick]

lol ok, but id love to hear why is that over AIM sometime.

[Justin B]

rwdrift, quit while you're even. lol :P

Some FWD cars are just darn quick, no but's about it.

[O 16581 72452 5]

Oh granted there are exceptions, but I'm sure that driver's experience alone accounts for most of it, shortly followed by the fact that 1/2 the cars you mentioned weight significantly less than any rwd competitor.

Not even Miatas match the weight of an old school cooper.

Not really, the Integra i owned was 2,500lbs, RSX is 2,800, even the newer EP Civic hatchbacks are 2,800.

[Erick]

Oh granted there are exceptions, but I'm sure that driver's experience alone accounts for most of it, shortly followed by the fact that 1/2 the cars you mentioned weight significantly less than any rwd competitor.

Not even Miatas match the weight of an old school cooper.

[Jean]

And yet another reason why you have zero credibility.

FWDs have to share accelerating, breaking and turning all in the same axles. Given the same conditions in power, suspension, etc.... a rwd will always have the handling advantage.

Correct, for the most part, but there are exceptions. Looks at mini coopers, celicas, rsx-s, integras, civics, they are all FWD but handle great and you can verify this through scca results against RWD cars...

I wouldn't say RWD will always have the handling advantage, especially not to an average driver.

[Erick]

I beat an Enzo today.

[O 16581 72452 5]

And yet another reason why you have zero credibility.

Because i'm not ignorant and carry an open mind? I've raced a few FWD cars, while some suck, Honda and Acuras perform very well in turns IMO.

I had absolutely no plowing issues with my Integra, i actually tried pushing it to the limits to make it plow and insted the ass kicked out. I had a Civic Hatchback (base model with no sway bars, i had adjustable springs and shocks) i raced an MR2 with, the MR2 driver was pretty well known as a decent driver, i'd ride him through the turns and fall behind in the straights. I also raced a novice with a 240sx and he couldn't keep up for shit. The hatch however did have some tendacy to plow, but i have no doubt it would hang with an e30 (318.), possibly out perform it slightly in turns of equal suspension mods and tires. The problem i had that i don't have with the e30 though is brake fade, i suffered from it with that hatchback and i'm guessing it was from all the weight in the front and it having to use the shit out of those brakes that aren't intended for that kind of driving.

That hatch was my favorite handling car though, very, very responsive, and very predictable, no other car i've driven have i felt quite that in control of.