TRM Bolt-in Roll Bar pictures

[z31maniac]

One thing to think about with this bar is it doesn't appear you can run a rear seat with it. Although I will never have anyone in my back seat I have to leave it in to be class compliant in STX and I believe other classes are the same way. That means this bar would be off the table for me.

+1

[matt]

I think we could fit a rear seat in with it with a little cutting. The harness bar is not as far back or low as it looks.

[brodee]

One thing to think about with this bar is it doesn't appear you can run a rear seat with it. Although I will never have anyone in my back seat I have to leave it in to be class compliant in STX and I believe other classes are the same way. That means this bar would be off the table for me.

Then again if I was just doing auto-x I wouldn't bother with a bar at all, any stiffness gained is negated by the added weight. But since I will do DE's with the car also I wanted the security of a bar and the best mount points for my harnesses.

The rest of the design on yours looks great. I like the idea the rear plates are pre-bent. That was the biggest pain in the ass with my Kirk bar was getting the rear plates and the opposing plates curved correctly to fit right.

[Elephant]

In the "cage game" one persons better is another persons crap. There really is more than 1 way to do a cage and be safe. It seems though that one person will argue that their way is right to the death. Go figure :)

That fo sho. Although personally I've looked at hundreds of cars and there are probably only a handful that I would consider unsafe, probably many that exhibit poor practices. Rather I am more amazed at the wide range of quality of workmanship. Even a basic 6 point cage welded in (sorry, I do consider bolt in unsafe for the most part) is going to generally be pretty safe. At some point it's simply diminishing returns, you can only get so much more safety out of it by improving the design.

And of course price. That, at least it seems to be which makes sense, is highly geographical. All I can say is I'm glad I'm living in the midwest where it seems I'm getting way more than I'm paying for!

Cheers.

[dinanm3atl]

Ask Ken... I think I am the least serious person you will find ;)

[matt]

Don't be so serious all the time. It's not good for you.

[dinanm3atl]

Yup, exactly what I posted.

[matt]

You probably think nascar bars are awesome, don't you halston?

:p

[dinanm3atl]

In the "cage game" one persons better is another persons crap. There really is more than 1 way to do a cage and be safe. It seems though that one person will argue that their way is right to the death. Go figure :)

[matt]

Depends on who you ask.

[e30 gangsta]

So in the end. Is the bar better than a kirk or vsr bolt in?

[dinanm3atl]

This was a very fun thread :)

[Elephant]

As stated, Mark McMahan is a fabricator in Akron, OH. He formerly did a lot of the work for TC....most of the cookie cutter stuff. He still does some stuff for him. I use McMahan exclusively for any fabrication work, the quality of workmanship is top notch. The price...man, tough to beat considering how good his work is.

If anyone ever needs work, call him, tell him I sent you. I get no kickbacks, just passing along the referral.

Cheers.

[Elephant]

I know this an old thread but it was referenced in another thread and I think it's worth commenting on.

First, we are factory trained by HMS/Schroth for proper harness installation/use. Second, I've been the BMW CCA CR National Tech Steward for the last 2 years and I've been involved in motorsports for nearly 10. I am extremely safety concious, I bought my HANS in 2002, way before many professional series were even requiring them, let alone amateur series. Safety very much matters to me and I take it very seriously, especially when inspecting vehicles.

So, to address a couple things here.....

1. If one is using either stock or competition seats with non competition belts, that mounting distance is perfectly fine. Certainly it is preferred to have a short a distance as possible.
2. Using Schroth belts with stock seats is fine, some belts are specifically made for certain vehicles. Schroth tests mfgr seats whenever they can to certify them for use with Schroth harnesses. It is impossible to test all seats, that should be obvious.
3. If a sub belt is not used there is only one competition harness that should be used in any scenario, the Profi ASM. No belt without ASM should ever be used if it does not have a sub belt, this is dangerous.
4. There is talk of spinal compression, this is not the issue at all. The issue with belts during a front impact is that without ASM or a sub belt the body can slip under the lap portion of the harness on the rebound. You can read about the ASM technology here:

Schoth Engineering

5. Discussions of cars passing tech.....if you fail a car for tech for improper installation make sure it is against the mfgr installation instructions. Using FIA rules or any other sanctioning body rules is not correct, those are general guidelines, mfgr instructions are specific to their product.
6. The Rallye products are not a compromise in safety, they are a compromise to purchasing additional safety gear, IE a HANS or other head/neck device. Schroth now makes "street" harnesses designed to be used with a HANS device. I would have no issues whatsoever using a Rallye belt if it fit my particular need. In my wife's E46 DD I will be installing the Schroth Quickfit Pro because I do prefer to wear my HANS device while instructing. This car does not have roll bar or anything and there is no safety concern here.
7. Porsche's and using harnesses....hopefully they are using seats WITHOUT the integrated headrest. If they are adding harnesses to those type of seats they are asking for injury. Using those loopy things to keep the shoulder straps in place is just plain silly. Next time you see someone with this set up wait til they are good an buckled in. Then push them laterally at their shoulder and see what happens.
8. All Schroth harnesses are polyester (and a proprietary design additionally), NOT nylon. Again, see the Schroth Engineering information.

So, all this being said, always follow the manufacturers recommended installation instructions. In some instances there may be conflicts with sanctioning body rules. If so, ask the sanctioning body for a clarification and cite the information you have.

This is all common sense really but there are a lot of internet myths out there that generalize things waaaaay too much.

Cheers.

[Scott///M]

Who is McMahan?

He's a cage builder up around Mid Ohio (not sure where). He builds some of the best cages I've seen.

If you live in that area? He's the guy to go to.