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different vanos signals.... s50, euro, m54, s54.

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    different vanos signals.... s50, euro, m54, s54.

    havent been here for a while. ive been playing with s14 motor. long story short, im coming back to the dark side.

    does anyone know how the dual vanos signals differ? for the different motors? i have been told (by reputible tuners) that the vanos signal on the s54 is different than the s50b32. wiring diagrams confirm that. anyone with experience? matt? hoveringuy?

    cheers, jason

    #2
    I'd like to see what the wiring diagrams show as different. My understanding was that the euro S50b32 and S54 were, indeed, very similar in VANOS functionality. The trigger wheels look identical on both of them. They both have two solenoids per cam. High Pressure oil.

    The DTA s100 looks like a sophisticated little unit. I don't see what is keeping it from working on both of those motors equally well.

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      #3
      I believe there are some tricks to making an aftermarket ECU work on the S54 vanos that are not needed with the S50B32. That's way out of my depth, we stick with stock ECUs in basically all circumstances.

      I can put you in touch with someone who could help you. He isn't cheap, though...

      Comment


        #4
        send me a pm with the contact info. i really want to get this solved. i know im not smart enough. but i think its time we finally got this worked out.

        EDIT: i know most people w/ standalone (running dual vanos) need to remove the diodes.... they will fuse together. Also have heard of standalone frying dual vanos on the new v8's / v10's. so, im a bit leary of just jumping into it without knowing what type of signal the s54 dual vanos is looking for.


        here are the vanos diagrams for both the 01 mss54b32 and 97 mss50b32. away from the office, dont have the mss50b30.




        cheers, jason
        Last edited by Jason89i; 01-31-2009, 12:35 PM.

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          #5
          What I can see is that that the euro S50b32 has VR cam sensors, the S54 doesn't show what kind of cam sensors it has. That's a little suprising for a cam sensor. Even the later M50's have Hall cam sensors!

          Both have very similar advance/retard solenoids with integrated flyback diodes. The both have power switched by the ECU. This is probably why you need to snip those diodes when installing a MOTEC system, I believe MOTEC switches ground so the diodes would be incorrect.

          I'm still not seeing what the big issue is. If you have their ECU ask them to give you specific reasons.

          Comment


            #6
            S54 has Hall cam sensors.

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              #7
              As kristov said, it looks like the cam sensors are Hall Effect sensors.


              Originally posted by whysimon
              WTF is hello Kitty (I'm 28 with no kids and I don't have cable)

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                #8
                well, it appears that the m54, s50b32 and s54 are VERY different in regards to picking up signals......here are my observations.

                m54. uses an inductive sensonr (pulse generator) and a raised tooth impulse sending rings. single tooth (180deg+/- raised tooth.) Intake ring is behind sprocket (sender reads off leading edge.) intake ring same part as m50/m52 motors. exhaust is in front of the sprocket (sender reads off face.)

                s54. uses a hall sensor (pulse generator) and toothed impulse sending rings on the back of the cams (towards the firewall.) 6 tooth on the intake, 8 tooth on the exhaust.

                euro s50b32. need verification.

                cheers, jason

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Jason89i View Post
                  well, it appears that the m54, s50b32 and s54 are VERY different in regards to picking up signals......here are my observations.

                  m54. uses an inductive sensonr (pulse generator) and a raised tooth impulse sending rings. single tooth (180deg+/- raised tooth.) Intake ring is behind sprocket (sender reads off leading edge.) intake ring same part as m50/m52 motors. exhaust is in front of the sprocket (sender reads off face.)

                  s54. uses a hall sensor (pulse generator) and toothed impulse sending rings on the back of the cams (towards the firewall.) 6 tooth on the intake, 8 tooth on the exhaust.

                  euro s50b32. need verification.

                  cheers, jason
                  M54 uses a Hall sensor as well. The intake ring is advertised as 180 degree halves but I have found that mine is 171/189.

                  I have seen photos of both the euro S50b32 and S54 trigger wheels. They look identical. Only difference I know of is VR vs Hall sensors.

                  My theory is that they needed the extra teeth on those motors for the higher oil pressure subsequent quicker response time of the VANOS. My 180 degree halves means I get ONE cam position update per crank revolution. That's fine for a cam response time of 1 second. The S54 does it in around 200ms and needs the extra position resolution.

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