Broken valve retainer.... another trashed s52!

[etxxz]

So in november my engine failed due to the Oil Pump nut falling off and loosing oil pressure:

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?p=1852964#post1852964

Three weeks ago, this happens from a broken valve retainer??? On the previous failure i just replaced two exhaust valves and the piston of cyl 5. This failure is intake side of cyl 6. Why would the retainer break?? The valve is incrusted upside down on the piston (#6). Its raised about 1/2" and i couldn't even pull i out! Engine has about 5000street miles and <15hrs of track time. Internals are all original though ~ 140k miles. I just replaced bearings, rings and gaskets during my rebuild.

Photos:

what you're looking at here ^^ is one of the valve locks/retainers split in two. The otherone is probably somewhere in my oil pan.



I'm considering parting this engine out to get a new one OR getting an m52, boring it to 86.4mm (s52 spec) which may need re-sleeving (up from 84mm) and slap my internals on it + rebuild. Costs may be the same but there's less risk with just getting an s52... problem is availability.

Thoughts on failure anyone?

[VEGETA7]

that sux man ,maybe if it was over reved it could happen ,seen it happen on m50.

if you decide to part out let me know on the cams with trays .

[madjurgen]

Thoughts on failure anyone?

Lol, seriously? Youre tracking a motor with 140k miles on the retainers! The valve is trying to pull the keeper through the retainer hole with every cycle. Did you expect them to last forever with sustained high rpm usage!? This incident combined with your OPN one leads me to believe youve never stepped foot in the bfc track forum. Sorry about being a dick but everyone knows about the proper ways to solve the OPN issue and everyone who tracks their car knows that retainers/keepers are wear items and should most definitely be replaced if theyre the original ones off the factory floor.

[e30polak]

Damn that blows! Sorry to hear man, hopefully everything gets worked out.

[416stroker]

How does the cumbustion chaimber and the cylinder walls look?

[dinanm3atl]

Lol, seriously? Youre tracking a motor with 140k miles on the retainers! The valve is trying to pull the keeper through the retainer hole with every cycle. Did you expect them to last forever with sustained high rpm usage!? This incident combined with your OPN one leads me to believe youve never stepped foot in the bfc track forum. Sorry about being a dick but everyone knows about the proper ways to solve the OPN issue and everyone who tracks their car knows that retainers/keepers are wear items and should most definitely be replaced if theyre the original ones off the factory floor.

That is not entirely true. I know of many a never opened M5X/S5X motor with more than 140,000 miles that do not have this problem and still to this day don't have that problem. It isn't guaranteed to happen.

[Van Westervelt]

I have an s52 block if you want it. 90k miles, its naked.

[VEGETA7]

That is not entirely true. I know of many a never opened M5X/S5X motor with more than 140,000 miles that do not have this problem and still to this day don't have that problem. It isn't guaranteed to happen.

completely agree ,i have an s50 with a little over 200k still sees track and daily driven ,never opened,no problems yet(i know time for a rebuild).

[madjurgen]

That is not entirely true. I know of many a never opened M5X/S5X motor with more than 140,000 miles that do not have this problem and still to this day don't have that problem. It isn't guaranteed to happen.

Never said it was guaranteed to happen, obviously. But when you see at least one lunched motor every few weeks over on bfc from dropping a valve you start to see a cause-and-effect. If you guys want to gamble with 200k mile parts in your tracked motors so be it, just dont come in here wondering what caused it. I know I feel much better spending ~$100 in parts and a few hours labor to make sure my valves stay in their place.

[dinanm3atl]

I just don't see that many. After lots of full 2 day weekends at the track I have not seen that failure first hand yet.

[VEGETA7]

If you guys want to gamble with 200k mile parts in your tracked motors so be it, just dont come in here wondering what caused it. I know I feel much better spending ~$100 in parts and a few hours labor to make sure my valves stay in their place.


i know its a gamble i've been taking and a huge risk with that many miles .but just waiting for my reason to go further on with the car(motor wise). thats just my side.

[etxxz]

Lol, seriously? Youre tracking a motor with 140k miles on the retainers! The valve is trying to pull the keeper through the retainer hole with every cycle. Did you expect them to last forever with sustained high rpm usage!? This incident combined with your OPN one leads me to believe youve never stepped foot in the bfc track forum. Sorry about being a dick but everyone knows about the proper ways to solve the OPN issue and everyone who tracks their car knows that retainers/keepers are wear items and should most definitely be replaced if theyre the original ones off the factory floor.

to be honest i had no clue about this being a wear item. I can see heat from the OPN failure having some effect, it just didn’t hit me to change this part in particular.

all i found on bf was post 10/95 build date valve locks being reinforced.. no idea this engine was so problematic :-(

How does the cumbustion chaimber and the cylinder walls look?

I have an s52 block if you want it. 90k miles, its naked.

pm'd

[dinanm3atl]

The engine simply isn't 'problematic'. It has quirks and some potential issues but I don't believe they are as common as they are made out to be. As some make it sound if you have 120K plus mileage and track your S52 it IS going to have an OPN failure. Which is not true.

[416stroker]

It doesnt look that Bad Id get a new piston for that cylinder and new valves and it should be fine. IT looks like it needs a valve seat thats about it but the other valves are possably bent that engine is salvagable. I dont see any damage to the cylinder wall but thew pistons not @BDC. I have the head looked at and pressure checked and due a valve job.


Now if the blocks not scored just Hone it and drop a new or used piston in it and new rings in thay cylinder and you should be fine

[madjurgen]

The engine simply isn't 'problematic'. It has quirks and some potential issues but I don't believe they are as common as they are made out to be. As some make it sound if you have 120K plus mileage and track your S52 it IS going to have an OPN failure. Which is not true.

Agree on the first part. These motors are not 'problematic', they just should have certain items replaced as preventative maintenance if track usage is in the cards. Not any different than your suspension. Are you going to go out there with rotting, original, stock rear subframe bushings and wait till they fail completely? No, youre going to replace them beforehand. So why should the motor be handled any differently?

Disagree on the second part. Mileage has nothing to do with the OPN backing itself off the pump spline. The M52 I bought has 60k miles on it. I was able to spin the OPN off by hand. If that doesnt scare you into safety wiring and/or tacking it on there, then something's wrong with you.