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*Updated & only kinda shitty now!* The definitive 5.0/302 swap guide

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    *Updated & only kinda shitty now!* The definitive 5.0/302 swap guide

    GRINDING OUT SOME NEW UPDATES!!! for now

    Lets face it, the original post was kind of shit. It was basically "blah blah fuck the e30v8 dot com guys because they're ghetto". Guess I was just pissed off at the time. Still true though. Anyway... let's start revising shit



    BASIC INFO ABOUT THE SWAP, AKA A REVIEW OF LE 'MURICUN BMW:


    Unless you have experience with very fast cars, even a stock 302 swap will not bore you. If you've never owned a v8 car you will be blown away by the amount of low end torque. Remember that episode of top gear where they put a corvette in 5th just to see what speed it could hit by the end of their runway? And they were like 'jeesus this corvette zed oh six has a fuckton of torque'? Yep, it's like that. You do put a little bit of weight on the front end, but I could still easily do 45 on those "25 mph" offramps with a little bit of wiggle room left. Used to do 50 with the m20 in there, but I was also five years younger at the time and way more reckless. With heads, the 5.0 is surprisingly rev happy. When everything's said and done, your car can also be this cool




    GENERAL DO'S / ACTUAL GUIDE DELIVERED:


    ENGINE:

    Try to find a 302 as new as possible. I think anything made before '81 will use a 28oz imbalance flywheel and balancer. This is nice, as in theory they will rev up faster. On the other hand, they're becoming less common and most of those are setup for a two piece rear main, which you don't want if you like your oil inside of your engine/pan. Anything made before 1985 will require linkbar-style lifters if you want rollers.

    They're nice since the chances of spinning a lifter and wiping out a cam lobe will be quite low, but on the other hand they're expensive as fuck.
    Try to get something out of an explorer. You'll gain roughly 2" of clearance between the water pump snout and the radiator with the explorer accessory drive. Unfortunately I don't have any pictures of this... but here's what it'll look like if you use the e30v8 mounts and a mishimoto z3m radiator

    Be sure to get a set of better valve springs if you get an explorer engine, as they're made out of goop and will let your valves float easily.

    Your oil pan must be sourced from an older, front-sumped mustang. Originally a five quart pan, you'll need to hack it down to roughly four quarts to get it to fit around the steering rack/subframe.

    If you're using an old 302 (like what would come with this pan) you can ignore my advice about the dipstick, as those have provisions for one in the timing cover. If you're using a 302 with a dipstick hole on the side of the block, you need to weld a dipstick bung/tube to the front sump. No other way of going about it.

    On the subject of pans, if you even have the most remote idea of tracking the car YOU NEED A BAFFLE FOR THE PAN!!!!! Just remember, you've cut the pan down to four quarts. A windage tray + accusump would be a good idea too. Dry sumping would be ideal for something like this, but from what I've seen there just isn't enough room in the engine bay for the gilmer/HTD pulley without putting the radiator in the trunk. e30_302 is trying to figure out a way around this, maybe he'll be able to provide some insight once he's done


    TRANS:

    There are plenty of options when it comes to the trans on these swaps. Imma focus on the manual trannies though.

    If the most you plan on doing to your 302 is headers/cam/intake/heads, then you can stick with a T5 if you're not going too crazy. For track use and/or more power, get a TKO. http://www.rosehillperformanceparts.com/ has a great bracket for a Datsun hydraulic slave. You'll want to get an auto trans mount though the 5spd mounts are too tall and will cause bad driveshaft angles

    Some guides will have you buy a wilwood pedal/master/slave combo for the clutch. Do not do this. There isn't enough room on the firewall and you will end up with clutch/brake pedals that are basically kissing. I'm gonna recommend the pedal box option from garagistic.com - get their adapter and a wilwood/tilton pedal set. It will be slightly more expensive than the previously mentioned combo + e34 remote booster or massive booster delete but will function much better with this swap.


    COOLING:

    Good luck with this one. With street driving, the stock e30 radiator will surprisingly do just fine (except on very hot days). Get the biggest fucking radiator you can fit if you plan on tracking the car though, you WILL need it. An oil cooler will also be necessary. You will want to choose your radiator based off of how long your water pump is and what dimensions you want. However, what I can tell you is that you don't want the radiator cap on the side of the thermostat. There's a bunch of theory I don't feel like explaining, because carpal tunnel, but here's a link:



    Basically, you're gonna want a radiator where a hose goes from the thermostat to the upper passenger side of the radiator. The lower half of the radiator will have the neck on the drivers' side and the cap will also go on the drivers' side. This will help you avoid overheating issues and having a ridiculous hose setup.

    Also, get a SPAL fan. They definitely push more air than the generic fans out there.

    If you bend the heater core pipes just right, you'll also be able to avoid cutting them. There IS enough room back there to hook hoses up to, it's just a very tight squeeze.

    DRIVETRAIN/REAR END:

    The necessary trans yoke can be purchased just about anywhere. The driveshaft flange, on the other hand, needs to be acquired from www.jagsthatrun.com. The stock BMW u-joints are not serviceable and are smaller than the JTR units. In total, expect to pay roughly $300 for the driveshaft after parts & having it made

    As far as the diff goes, you're gonna wanna get a second diff mount. I personally broke mine on the cover (top half of the ear broke off). Garrett, I believe, is still selling them. Either that or you can convert to an e36-style diff cover, like what Vorshlag did



    Axles... well, if you beat on it long enough (or are making alot of power) you're eventually gonna wanna get some upgraded axles. I have no idea what the CA tuned axles are good for, or if they're actually any good, but they're the only alternative option I know of vs the Drive Shaft Shop ones. Before you drop $1k on DSS axles, keep in mind that I've met several people at the track who've broken DSS axles and they're way under the "max" power rating. Might be worth it to just keep spare OE axles handy.

    EXHAUST:

    This is another shitshow. You can either buy a set of headers and flip them backwards (if you put a passenger side header on the drivers' side you don't have to touch the steering shaft), run the exhaust under the control arms like a "U", make a "Y" pipe and exit on the passenger side, use a passenger side header on the passenger side and merge the two pipes past the control arms OR shoot both the regular way. Doing this will require a custom header on the drivers' side as well as a Flaming River u-joint kit to replace the steering shaft. Oh yeah, and on the subject of steering shafts, DON'T use two e46 shafts as a "budget" replacement for the Flaming River ones. Not only are they really not that cheap, but what people don't seem to say about splicing two e46 steering shafts together is that each "section" of the shaft is ever so slightly tapered. what does this mean? when you go to put the two halfs together, the "support" piece you use in the middle has some play... alot of play. i believe mine had roughly a 1-2mm gap on each side of the tube.

    Aside from that, the only way to remove this steering shaft is to take the rack down, which is very impractical. With the flaming river setup you can unbolt the actual shaft from the u-joints and move it out of the way, which makes running the shaft through a set of custom headers that much more practical.

    Treehouse racing style control arm lollipops are recommended as they offer exceptional exhaust clearance vs the OE lollipops. I have heard stories about THR being run by unsavory characters, so I'll mention that bimmerworld sells (what appears to be anyway) identical parts for a cheaper price.

    FUELING CHOICE:

    Do you have EFI stuff? Good for you. Don't have EFI stuff, feel like spending money for the EFI stuff AND keeping the car off the track (except drag)? Use an edelbrock carb. They're stupid easy to tune and hold the tune reasonably well. They do have flooding/starving issues on track though, so if this is primarily a track car do an EFI setup. Unfortunately I really don't have any good advice about doing an EFI setup though. I plan on doing a megasquirt on my next car though

    That's all I've got for now. Let me know if there's anything you wanna add in

    [B]CAUTIONS:

    Many people have noted that the e30v8 mounts are not 100% drop in. From what I heard a few years ago, they outsource their welding and the QC needs serious help. I personally had to slot my passenger side mount by about .5" as the trans was pushed completely against one side of the trans tunnel. Unfortunately, they're the only source of mounts for these cars, so there's not much choice in using them

    7. Don't use a 2G alternator. Apparently they're only good for 65 or 70 amps, which doesn't seem too bad until you realize the stock e30 one was good for 80-90 or so. Not to mention the design is terrible (in the end, all the power ends up going through a 12 gauge fusible link...). Instead, what you want to do is get a 3G alternator. Sure, they're more expensive but they also put out 130A max, which is cool. Also, they're much simpler to wire up.
    Last edited by jalopi; 02-07-2015, 07:39 AM.

    #2
    My first swap car is now in or. Learned alot but on to the next. My next swap is all e30v8 mounts and pan. The last setup was all custom mounts that came with the car (bought it as a very poorly swapped car). Ill weigh in on the quality when i use them.

    Few things-

    - do custom headers. Wraping the exhaust works but by the time i was done i was over $1000 into the exhaust and i did half of it myself. Could of got headers made for less and not routed all that beside the engine .

    - if you can do a custom rad setup with a taurus fan/volvo controller with e36 thermo switch. Do it. My car ran between 185 and 192. It never got above 192, which means i never saw the 2nd speed.

    - dont cheap out or short cut. Ever .

    ive got a pedal box designed for use with a wilwood reverse mount 3 mini master setup and pull slave setup but again havent tested um yet so we 'll see when i get a motor and tranny lined up.

    Comment


      #3
      Well, go for using the wilwood pull slave, but I've had two fail on me now... problem is I can't find a good mounting solution. Both of them have found ways to "realign" themselves and start rubbing on the hole they're running through in the bellhousing, causing premature failures.

      I just bought a 7/8" bore push cylinder with about the same travel as the wilwood pull slave and I'm gonna make a bracket like this:

      Site about ford Mustangs , 5.0, seats, tech, restoration, 9" third member, horsepower


      hopefully this will solve my "replace slave cylinder every 500-800 miles" problem.

      Comment


        #4
        This is the setup i have but again havent had a chance to actually bolt it up. Now that i look at it ive got a push setup.



        Also just for ref

        Pedal box


        Pedal assm
        Free Shipping - Wilwood Brake/Clutch Pedal Assemblies with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Pedal Assemblies at Summit Racing.


        Minimasters
        Free Shipping - Wilwood Combination Remote Master Cylinders with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Master Cylinders at Summit Racing.
        Last edited by eurotrash; 12-10-2013, 11:46 AM.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by eurotrash View Post
          This is the setup i have but again havent had a chance to actually bolt it up. Now that i look at it ive got a push setup.



          Also just for ref

          Pedal box


          Pedal assm
          Free Shipping - Wilwood Brake/Clutch Pedal Assemblies with qualifying orders of $109. Shop Pedal Assemblies at Summit Racing.


          Minimasters
          http://m.summitracing.com/parts/wil-260-3376

          All of this is :up:

          This is what people want to do for their clutch and brake setup. Also, when I was doing research I think I came across something like daze and rosehill co-developed the idea for a reasonably priced bracket setup. I just refuse to pay $100 for a bracket now that I have a welder, so I'm making it myself. Won't be pretty... but neither is my car.

          Did you do fuel injection on your car euro? I'm still carb'd... probably will be until I stop being lazy. That could take a while. In any case, we need someone to put some input on the EFI setup. Soon I'm going to try to break things up into sections and try to include pictures or something.

          Mind if I use your latest exhaust pics in the thread euro?

          Comment


            #6
            Go for it. I had a carb'd setup on the earliest generation of a 302 (3 bolt 28 oz imbalance crank) . I had to source accessory mounts and convert to vbelt to make my wp work proper. Learn from my mistakes. 302 and 5.0 are similar not the same. This can make a huge in your accessories.

            Also in order to bolt my t5 to my 302 i had to get a conversion flywheel. The 302 uses a dif clutch/presure plate/flywheel. Expect to pay around $400 extra on the flywheel to mount a t5 on the 302.

            Earliest 302: '68-'70
            -28oz imbalance
            -3 bolt crank (where the crank pully bolts up)
            -clockwise wp flow

            Latest gen 302: '70-'79
            -28oz imbalance
            -4 bolt crank
            -clockwise wp flow

            early 5.0: '79 on
            -50oz imbalance
            -4 bolt crank
            -counter clockwise wp flow

            Newest 302 (explorer/mountaineer)
            -50 imbalance
            -4 bolt crank
            -counter clockwise wp flow
            -Gt40 heads/intake
            -shorter accesories (gives you more room in front of engine for rad and fan.)

            You wont be able to run a serp belt setup on the 302 unless you swap the wp to a reverse flow wp or run the alt. on the driverside. . I wound up not finding the 2nd option til after i made my setup work. I used a ford racing vbelt pulley setup and a serp accessory mount kit and cutting the spacers down to line all the pulleys up.

            This is the only setup ive found to mount the alt to the driverside
            http://www.breezeautomotive.com/details.php?prod_id=158

            I can add links all day for accesory mounts, conversion flywheels, oil filter options, and other swap/conversion parts but i think this is enough for now.
            Last edited by eurotrash; 12-10-2013, 07:41 PM.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Nick's e30
              You will need a Vorshlagg Steering Guibo delete and custom headers, but you can sneak the driver side header in between the rack and around the back of the oil pan. This puts it next to the passenger side DP at the stock y-pipe location. Then, send the dual exhaust out the back similar to that which a stock 325is runs.
              got pictures of your/this setup?

              Comment


                #8
                yeah, I've seen them on the m60 before (also on the new LS sikky kit) so I'm sure its doable on our cars.

                Also, can't blame the hibernation... weather/temps are pretty shit down here, don't wanna know what it's like 200 miles north

                Comment


                  #9
                  Seems like a lot of work for 200whp stock (newest generation 5.0). Definitely not worth it unless you do heads/cam *or use an explorer engine
                  sigpic

                  Comment


                    #10
                    On the slave cylinder issue, it's pretty easy to use a 70s 280z slave cylinder and fab up a bracket to push the clutch fork.
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Key here is the 150'/lbs of torque over an m20. Completely worth it. I had no problem rolling on it anywhere in 2nd and breaking it loose. A clutch kick in 3rd would break it loose. This was with 215s on the back.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Nick's e30
                        Also, 2G alternator WILL NOT CUT IT!!! Gotta go 3G. I'm running a 2G atm and the car dies and needs the battery charged after 1 or 2 short rides (15-20 miles each). Next season, I will get the 3G.
                        Lol, that's #7 on the "don't" list. Regardless though, your battery should be lasting much longer than that...

                        *EDIT*

                        Just remembered you've got a computer and fuel injectors to run along with everything else I've got... don't know how many amps the ms, fuel injectors and all other sensors or whatever pull, but if it's close to 10 or so I can see where you'd start running into problems.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by aaron.j View Post
                          On the slave cylinder issue, it's pretty easy to use a 70s 280z slave cylinder and fab up a bracket to push the clutch fork.

                          Jeez that's cheap... and of course I see this after my new slave comes in. The one I got has a 7/8" bore, so I imagine the pedal effort would be a bit more with the Z slave... but haven't seen anything online about how much travel you get with that slave. I'm assuming this is a popular option with t5 guys?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I used a piece of threaded rod for the pushrod. I haven't seen anyone else do it actually. It def. has enough travel.
                            sigpic

                            Comment


                              #15
                              mind posting a picture of your bracket? In the middle of making mine right now, the one I was gonna copy from rosewood/daze isn't going to work without major clearancing in the trans tunnel. Decided to make a bracket that bolts on to the tranny to bellhousing flange, then up to the 'front' hole that rosewood/daze used.

                              Comment

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